Dosing less than level with the rim of the basket

[DC]

Hi,

When dosing coffee I know most people use a mound of grounds leveled to the rim of the basket. However, if I level to the rim of the basket I cannot get the pf into my machine after tamping. I've worked out by trial and error that there needs to be at least 9mm clearance between the top of the leveled puck and the rim of the basket for it to fit.

My question is therefore, does anyone have suggestions as to how I can dose consistently like this? At the moment I'm filling to "a bit under the rim" before tamping, but obviously this makes leveling the grounds difficult and is giving me a lot of variation between shots and types of bean.

Cheers for any suggestions,

DC

[another_jim]

It's a tough question I'm facing now, since the Ekektra Semi works best with the double basket relatively underdosed. I'm using a scale good to 0.1 grams until I get a feel for what the dose looks like ground.

If that doesn't work for you ("what, more gear? "), you can try "reverse dosing." Pack your basket just right, dump the grinds, fluff them up, reload the basket, see what sort of mound you get.

[Cody]

Good question. My Silvia is the same way. I have found that I need to underdose as well or I cannot lock my pf in and most of the time I choke her if I was lucky enough to lock it in. I have never measured or weighed my amounts. I eye two even scoops of beans to under dose and two over filled scoops to get a mound in the basket. I use the WDT and with the cup still with the basket I gently swirl or move back and forth the cup to get as even as I can. I still have a dent in my puck under dosing and I am guessing the 9mm is pretty close to where I am at. It would be nice if I could over dose and level grounds in basket for consistency.
Cody

[cannonfodder]

I went through the same issue when I started working on single baskets. I just dosed until the mound was almost even with the top of the basket. Then I would tap the portafilter ears with my tamper to jostle and level out most of the mound and tamp as usual. The difficult part was learning my dose by sight. It just took practice.

[Abe Carmeli]

Hi,

When dosing coffee I know most people use a mound of grounds leveled to the rim of the basket. However, if I level to the rim of the basket I cannot get the pf into my machine after tamping. DC

My guess is that you are applying too much downward pressure when you are leveling the puck, or you are tapping the portafilter before leveling. Dont tap it, and use the WDT to fluff up the ground coffee and then level it without down pressure. That's the best way to down-dose. Alternatively, when leveling, bow your finger so that it will shave off more coffee. This will create a delay in saturating the center of your puck during extraction and it changes machine to machine, but it will allow you to down-dose.

[MOSFET]

What works well for me is the bowed finger approach mentioned above. But I do tap it beforehand to get rid of air pockets. I find that if I tap it and swipe with a bowed finger, I get about 15g, the coffee seals the perimeter well, and it won't channel. This is if I tamp with only the weight of the tamper, or not at all. Ironically, I get uneven extraction when I tamp normally. So I have switched to very light tamping.

Keith

[Fullsack]

Just a slight variation on the above. I use a single basket with the Elektra Semi and do the N,S,E,W, a la Schomer with a bowed finger. This gives me a more even dosing. The amount of downward pressure applied during this method regulates the amount of coffee left in the basket. Note the distance between the level of the coffee and the rim of the basket after tamping and make micro adjustments with your downward pressure for your next dosing until you get exactly the pull you are looking for.

If you have a naked pf and notice you're getting "donuts," make your grind finer and your tamp lighter.

[DC]

Thanks for the advice,

...or you are tapping the portafilter before leveling. Dont tap it...

Yeah, I had been tapping the pf quite a lot whilst dosing (I never used to do that - weird how bad habits slip into your technique under the radar), and have reduced this to one tap mid-dose. This has enabled me to fill to the rim of the basket, tamp, and lock okay.

If you have a naked pf and notice you're getting "donuts," make your grind finer and your tamp lighter

I've developed a problem with center-channeling: about mid-way through the pour, the extraction becomes quite thin from most of the basket (to the point that you can see some of the holes in the filter basket) and fast-blond through the middle, or slightly off-center. I've never had a channeling problem before. Off to re-examine my WDT....

DC

[dsc]

Ola

I'm not sure if this could be helpful but I managed to create a small tool to distribute the coffee in my basket. I usually also dose less than the rim of the basket so I had trouble leveling the coffee, but not anymore. Behold the coffee stirring device:



It's also good for breaking clumps, I use it instead of the single needle in my WDT ritual.

Cheers,
dsc.

[Abe Carmeli]

I hear they use it in Guantanamo. Did you hook it up to an electric spinning toothbrush by any chance?

[Abe Carmeli]

Yeah, I had been tapping the pf quite a lot whilst dosing (I never used to do that - weird how bad habits slip into your technique under the radar).

Just for the record, I did not mean to say you should never tap. Tapping is good and used to take out air pockets and control dosage. So it generally improve distribution if you apply it properly. But over-tapping will create an overdose, as you have realized.

[J_R]

If you have a naked pf and notice you're getting "donuts," make your grind finer and your tamp lighter.

I have been getting lots of "donut" extractions with my new Vetrano/Macap m4 stepless. That is, there's often a dead spot in the middle.

Tell me where I'm going wrong...

I dose from the grinder into the portafilter until the coffee is heaping up a bit above the rim of the basket.
Then I use a needle for the WDT, fluffing up the grounds and breaking up clumps.
Then I level off the grounds with my finger, not (intentionally) compressing at all.
Do a very light tamp, then clean off the rim of the portafilter.
Then do a 30lb tamp with the Espro.
Flush a few seconds beyond the end of the water dance, then lock in filter and brew.

I'm regularly getting about 1.5-1.75 ounces in 25-30 seconds, but often with that center dead spot.

So what variables should I adjust? Would up-dosing help? If so, how do I do it while still using the WDT? Should I WDT so that coffee is above rim of basket, then tap the portafilter so that the coffee settles down into the handle?

Fullsack recommends a lighter tamp, but I'd prefer to keep the tamp a constant 30lbs and adjust another variable if possible.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[dsc]

Ola

Abe: that vibrating, spinning toothbrush would be cool:) but even without it it works quite nice, you can fluff the coffee a bit, move it around, without actually moving too many grounds and basically level it, before tapping and tamping.

Cheers,
dsc.

[HB]

Should I WDT so that coffee is above rim of basket, then tap the portafilter so that the coffee settles down into the handle?

That's what I would do, i.e., tap tap the portafilter before removing the yogurt "funnel." The grounds would settle enough to allow a nice Stockfleths move distribution for any minor divots. You may want to weigh the coffee to assure you're consistent shot-to-shot with this approach by removing the portafilter retaining clip and dropping in the basket after a quick weight check. Once your donuts extractions subside, go back to volume dosing with occasional recalibrations (related topic: Exercises for tuning your barista techniques).

[Fullsack]

If you have a naked pf and notice you're getting "donuts," make your grind finer and your tamp lighter.

I was too hasty to recommend this adjustment as a fix for donuts. It worked well for the best part of a half pound of Monkey, but when I switched to Dolce I got spits, splatters and sub par espresso. I don't know why it worked with the Monkey and why I couldn't duplicate the results with the Dolce, maybe I was just lucky with the Monkey. Regardless, I'm going back to the basics, WDT.

[RapidCoffee]

I have been getting lots of "donut" extractions with my new Vetrano/Macap m4 stepless. That is, there's often a dead spot in the middle.

You might try a different tamper. In particular, if your Espro has a flat base (as mine does), try a tamper with a convex base. I'm not sure why, but my extractions tend to be slightly more even when I use a convex tamper.
________
John

[J_R]

That's what I would do, i.e., tap tap the portafilter before removing the yogurt "funnel." The grounds would settle enough to allow a nice Stockfleths move distribution for any minor divots. You may want to weigh the coffee to assure you're consistent shot-to-shot with this approach by removing the portafilter retaining clip and dropping in the basket after a quick weight check.

Thanks to all for these good suggestions. Dan, you recommend removing the basket for a weight check. But I'm not able to remove the basket from the handle. It's the naked portafilter from 1st-Line. Could it be that the basket is somehow permanently attached to the handle? Also, should I assume from your response that you believe that up-dosing may ameliorate the "donut" extraction problem?

[RapidCoffee]

Thanks to all for these good suggestions. Dan, you recommend removing the basket for a weight check. But I'm not able to remove the basket from the handle. It's the naked portafilter from 1st-Line. Could it be that the basket is somehow permanently attached to the handle? Also, should I assume from your response that you believe that up-dosing may ameliorate the "donut" extraction problem?

You should be able to pry out the basket by inserting a flat bladed screwdriver under the rim while you push up from the bottom. It's probably just held in by the retaining clip. Ridgeless baskets are convenient because they pop in and out of the portafilter very easily.

My guess: updosing will increase the probablility of edge channeling, not decrease it. Something is preventing even flow in the center of the basket. Adding more coffee grounds does not seem likely to help this.
________
John

[ChrisC]

Just a quick note in response to the original question, I've read about people using a butter knife with a curved blade and using that to level with, in order to get a more consistent underdose.

Cheers,
C

[Grant]

I dose and level with the RIM, but if I HAD to level lower down, I would probably just get something like a popsickle stick, or a thin piece of plastic or something and shape/cut it out like the black portion of this (sorry for the really bad picture). Distribute well, and then a careful spin of this inside the basket may level it nicely....sort of like a concrete spreader...



Have the smaller part fit just inside the PF basket, and by simply spinning it around, it should level it pretty well...like an inside Stockfleths sorta kinda....

Grant

Edit....here is an equally bad side view.....painting is fun!