Do coffee houses and brew pubs naturally go together?

[HB]

My brother was interested in the opinions of HB members for a potential new business:

Your favorite coffee house has just opened a small brewpub operation offering hand-crafted beers during evening hours. Which most closely matches your first impression?

[cantide]

I think this is a fantastic idea. I live with a brewer, work with a roaster, and make coffee for people all day on a POS san marco. This is a dream for me which will turn into a business in 10 years or so, with the addition of wine and probably some pretty amazing-tasting yet basic food Chur!:)

Edit: also I think that people who say coffee belongs in one corner, beer in another, are narrow-minded. They are closely related by EXTREME FLAVOUR and BEVVY GOODNESS

[cpl593h]

I was talking about this over some belgian triples with some friends of mine a while back... they mentioned that they had this dream of opening up a pub much like the one we were at. I said "that would be great, as long as you let me partner with you guys and make it at coffee place as well." Pipe dreams for us, but it's a concept that makes a lot of sense.

[IronBarista]

I think it would be a great idea. A lot of places in Europe have that very concept and pull it off well IMHO. Actually, I don't think they do it for cool reasons but for consumer reasons. One of my favorite cafes is in Hasselt, Belgium. It's called Hemelrijk. They serve excellent Italian food and they have a beer menu with 400 choices. To tell the truth, I go for the beer and then the food. But I did hear a grinder going. Maybe milk being frothed but I don't remember as I had a Girardin Oud Geuze, De Ranke Guldenburg, and a Het Kapittel Prior. Did I tell you I like my Belgians?

Anyway, there are numerous places that do this. Great beer, great food, so-so coffee. They even have wine! Now, if they did great coffee...oh yeah!

[cappadoc]

Dan,
I would have no objection to such a place, but I'm not sure the American market would accept the idea. This country tends to overindulge in alcohol at times, which would compromise the integrity of the coffee house concept, IMHO. Would anyone want to drink coffee in a typical bar-like atmosphere? If it were non-smoking, that might make it a more pleasant, less rowdy place, but I'd wonder how the beer side would fare in such a venue. Obviously, this would not be a typical beer bar given that it's a microbrewery, but I would do some SERIOUS market analysis before considering such a venture.
Please don't misunderstand me. I'd find it an intriguing place. I love both espresso and beer, but in my mind, I feel like they are enjoyed in different contexts. I would certainly try the place out, but without experiencing it I can't say if I'd be a regular.


Jeff

[MrMonkey]

McMenamins is a brew pub empire in the Portland Oregon area. They have branched out into Hotels, Movie Theatres and even a golf course. So, it didn't surprise me too much when they started roasting coffee. Looks like they already have a combination coffee bar/pub.

http://www.mcmenamins.com/index.php?loc=45

I've never tried their coffee, but the beers are first rate.

[el_poderoso]

I am Dan's brother Mitch. I got this nutty idea when my wife suggested I should open a coffee bar that served homebrewed beer. I am better at the beer, than the coffee, but I was intrigued by the idea. We can't go to pubs because my wife is allergic to cigarette smoke and if I drink coffee after 3pm I wind up awake all night.

So I thought it might be cool to have a pint of REALLY GOOD beer in a genteel coffee house environment (no smoking and other bad smells, light alternative music.) Since it has never really been done before, I wasn't sure if the concept was brilliant or stupid.

According to my projections, based on what people in both businesses say is a typical degree of success, the coffee side would bring in roughly 2x the revenue as the beer side without a restaurant attached, but beer customers would be more likely to have 2 or more drinks, so maybe I am underestimating the beer side.

In PA, you don't need a liquor license to serve your own beer made on premises, however you cannot sell anything else. The required state permits would cost almost $2000 the first year and a few hundred bucks in subsequent years.

Start up cost would be roughly 80-120k, depending on how nice you pimp the place out, so it is not a cheap prospect, but with a Starbucks franchise running $300-350k turnkey, I figure a couple of motivated guys might be able to make a go of it.

[NewEnglandCliff]

Mmmm, McMenamins - love Edgefield!

To the topic, a more viable business would be to have a specialty beer bar that also brews great espresso drinks. It's very common for bars in Europe to have an espresso machine (which sees frequent usage despite poor barista skills/poor coffee quality) as well as in New Zealand, Australia and other parts of the world. Discriminating beer drinkers are often discriminating about other consumables. And many who aren't would still appreciate a pick-me-up on a long night out or before the drive home. Unless you're committed to having (and paying) knowledgeable beer brewing staff and the large effort it takes to brew quality beers (few brewpubs do), I'd go with simply offering on tap a few unique beers already being brewed by some top experts, and stock a few hand picked bottles. You'll have far fewer headaches and be nearly assured of quality and a certain degree of consistency. Changing up some of your taps for a varied selection will be easier, and drinkers who're familiar with great beer will recognize what you have to enjoy. And they won't be able to turn in their pint saying it's "bad" or off, as everyone who knows these beers knows how they're supposed to taste, which could be a problem with homebrews.

Still, there is one coffeeshop that I know of that does successfully sell a few good tap beers and that's Muddy Waters in Burlington, VT. They're not a brewpub, but they do a great business.