The Disappearance of the Straight Shot - Page 4

[Abe Carmeli]

If you wish to use those same tools, then I challenge you to evaluate them comprehensively: sensory (taste, visual, etc.), presentation (customer service, explanation/descriptions), and technicals (shot times, waste, consistency, etc.). To utilize only the sensory elements lacks the comprehensive evaluation that would accompany the goal of education and information that I know you strive for.

I think using the USBC technical score sheet would be a bit too much. Can you see me ordering a shot with a stop watch at hand a a clipboard telling the barista "go"? I don't want to rate anyone on their technique, it is not my place really in a consumer review. The sensory should be enough in my opinion. Though I agree that readers here would be interested to know about it. Perhaps a comment on the preparation technique used in general and brew parameters will satisfy that curiosity.

[Mike White]

Also, I think if people are going to ask as an effective method of tuning (to the extent that's possible in any event), it has to be more than perfunctory - maybe ask if you could be adjusting any brew parameters, or how it rates comparatively, or something else actively soliciting a response other than "fine", to make clear that you really want input rather than just asking out of habit...?

Good point, I agree. Sometimes I suggest that the shots have a certain characteristic that i've noticed and enjoy, or don't enjoy and have been fighting, and ask if they agree.

As a side note however, it's a bit unfair to be criticized later when the critic was afraid to discuss their dissatisfaction at the time of service. When a waiter brings me a sub par meal, I send it back. I don't eat it and complain about it on my blog the next day.

After downing 18 drinks, Matt Riddle insisted that the judges drink his shots and not leave a drop in the cup, "cause all the sweetness was in the bottom". I tell you, that bottom was not so sweet to me.

This brings up another interesting point. As a barista downing dozens of shots a day, it can become hard to calibrate them for the discerning palate...we (pros) are only human, and often enjoy the feedback and the opportunity to improve for people who care (at the time of service).

Abe next time you stop by, i'd be happy to share my equipment with you!

[Kuban111]

Mike,
On a side note:
Just wanted to say it's great to see you chime in on the positive side here.
As one of your customers sure is reassuring.

Note to self.....Need to get me one of those Gimme! cups next time I'm in.

Michael.

[Mike White]

Thanks Michael. At the end of the day shot quality is not something you can "set and forget". I guess this topic just struck home with my because I'm so aware of the variations throughout the day. It's hard to be judged by a single shot alone. I certainly enjoy some of my own more than others.

[zin1953]

Here in the home of Peet's (the original is just down the hill from my house), I rarely order a straight espresso from Peet's -- only from a tiny number of people at a couple of different stores. Well, more properly, only if a few select individuals are working their machines. (BTW, locally most have LM Lineas -- 3gr, 4gr; some newer stores have two 2gr -- but one has a Faema E92 Elite). BUT, at least they know what a ristretto is (though they call it a "short pull").

There are a few "one of's" (i.e.: single location coffee houses) that pull decent singles and/or doubles as "straight shots" here, but they remain "hit-or-miss," depending upon who's pulling the shots. And -- of course -- the odds of a great shot improve tremendously if one visits a microroaster's own café (Flying Goat, Blue Bottle, Ritual, to name but three).

But this is California, land of the "happy cows," and most of the "baristas" are college students and -- trust me -- it's much SAFER to order a small latte than a straight shot. Then again, very few know what "latte art" is, so just pop on that plastic lid and get back in your car . . . .

Cheers,
Jason

[JimWright]

As a side note however, it's a bit unfair to be criticized later when the critic was afraid to discuss their dissatisfaction at the time of service. When a waiter brings me a sub par meal, I send it back. I don't eat it and complain about it on my blog the next day.

Ah, but this goes back to the point re: restaurant reviews. It's certainly easier for the barista/cafe/restaurant to correct a problem when the customer is willing to confront them about it on the spot, but the customer does not have any responsibility to do that as you are suggesting - the customer's responsibility is to pay for the food and not to disturb other patrons. And Abe is right to observe that at many busy cafes, this would be an onerous obligation indeed - at the Silverlake Intelligentsia on an average morning, there is a 15 minute line outside, and I'm not about to get back in it or fight my way back to the front and ask the barista for another if my shot was bitter. And I'm more aggressive than average - a huge number of people would never dream of it even in the absence of a line! Quality control is the provider's job, not the customer's, and it's certainly fair for customers to make observations about that control without stepping up and doing it themselves - the fact that you send it back and won't post a criticism just means you, yourself, are unwilling to review restaurants.

[Kuban111]

It's hard to be judged by a single shot alone.

Mike,

If I may I'm using the above quote not to demean your thoughts or point of view on your post but as I read this a thought comes to mind.
Although I'm not a professional barista or even can say I've come close to the meaning of the word Barista by the standards that you and other professional have earned.

I can relate to a similar situation on a less professional setting. I feel the same way when I have someone over my home and offer them an espresso, knowing that I'm going to be judge by that single shot. So to say it plainly I'm on the spot so it better be a good shot. I'm not saying a god shot just a damn good one.

On another note how about Barista completions aren't they judge on there straight espresso? Yes you are right it is hard to be judge by a single shot but yet we have 1st 2nd & 3rd placement winners.

So the idea that a review may be not fair base on a single shot, just from my own thinking here is not out of the question.

I do (IMHO) suggest a review base on no less then 3 people, reason for I believe less of an influence on each other and this also takes care of the self promotion/ personal preferences of an individual's questionings.

Let the shot do the talking.

(edit) Ok may be 2 reviewers, it can be the next SISKEL and EBERT of the espresso world.
Michael.

[Mike White]

On another note how about Barista completions aren't they judge on there straight espresso? Yes you are right it is hard to be judge by a single shot but yet we have 1st 2nd & 3rd placement winners.

yep. And competitions are hard! Even first place winners can't serve 200 out of 200 perfectly!

Ah, but this goes back to the point re: restaurant reviews. It's certainly easier for the barista/cafe/restaurant to correct a problem when the customer is willing to confront them about it on the spot, but the customer does not have any responsibility to do that as you are suggesting - the customer's responsibility is to pay for the food and not to disturb other patrons. And Abe is right to observe that at many busy cafes, this would be an onerous obligation indeed - at the Silverlake Intelligentsia on an average morning, there is a 15 minute line outside, and I'm not about to get back in it or fight my way back to the front and ask the barista for another if my shot was bitter. And I'm more aggressive than average - a huge number of people would never dream of it even in the absence of a line! Quality control is the provider's job, not the customer's, and it's certainly fair for customers to make observations about that control without stepping up and doing it themselves - the fact that you send it back and won't post a criticism just means you, yourself, are unwilling to review restaurants.

point taken, I agree. The whole experience is determined by much more than just the shot. If the customer feels uncomfortable while drinking it (enough so not to provide honest feedback), it will surely color their determination of the quality. The experience is always best when interactive, but that's not always possible. In any event, you're right. It is not the responsibility of the customer to provide quality control.

[JimWright]

Mike, the very fact that you are participating and interested here (and of course the posted experiences of others here getting great product at your establishment ) means I will surely stop in at least once the next time I'm in Manhattan, and will recommend that my mom and stepfather come by soon!

And Michael, as consumers, you're right as well, it behooves us to take reviews with a grain of salt when it's just one person at one moment - I believe that is why Zagat's reviews are consolidated from the reports of many people. Maybe we should urge them to do cafe reviews!

[Kuban111]

On another note how about Barista completions aren't they judge on there straight espresso? Yes you are right it is hard to be judge by a single shot but yet we have 1st 2nd & 3rd placement winners.

yep. And competitions are hard! Even first place winners can't serve 200 out of 200 perfectly!

Agree, But Baristas still except the challenge an except that there work will be judge.
That's why I applaud these individuals. Sure glad it's not me up there.




Espresso Zagat's love it Jim, and while you're at it hey let me know when in NYC. I'm down to meet up and take you around to all my fav shops.


Michael.

[miKe mcKoffee]

Seems to me to a great extent the original thread title is backwards. How 'bout The Emergence of the Straight Shot. Since when did the US have an ingrained Straight Shot culture and tradition? Quality focused cafes are rather fighting against the seemingly ingrained US tendency for milkerated sweetened humongoyd beverages all too many people call espresso. Granted the microcosm of this forum does not fit that majority description.

Agree it is extremely tough to find a good shot out here. That does not mean they're not out here or that some places don't put primary focus on the shot. Do not agree separate grinder, blend or shot parameters are required for a straight shot that sings versus shot with micro-foamed milk beverage. Can go that route yes but not requisite. Really depends on the blend of course. Heck, I'm already using a four espresso grinder model without using two main blend grinders! (our main Ohana blend, decaf blend, SO or guest blend and Single Estate Kona grinders) Sure the double shot does tend to get a bit lost in 16oz beverages but hey, I'm not going to have a bitey blend/roast to compensate for that. And we do suggest going quad for the 16's. Our Ohana blend double shots (all shots pulled double normale, no singles, double ristretto on request) do great as straight shots and even up to 12oz lattes. I honestly just don't care that much about total milk baby beverages and even chucked the 20oz paper size that was here when we bought the place! Which isn't to say don't care about the quality of the shot in a 16oz or the milk for that matter. (Heck, we pay 'bout $1.50 more per gallon for milk than cheapo milk found at grocery stores or Costco. Why, because it tastes better. Especially important in traditional milk beverages like a macchiato or cappuccino.)

But hey, out of ~6 pounds pulled so far today exactly ONE customer straight shot. Yet goal is for each shot to be pulled like it's for a straight shot. Whether maintaining high standards is practical or I lose my house is yet to be seen...

[JimWright]

Espresso Zagat's love it Jim, and while you're at it hey let me know when in NYC. I'm down to meet up and take you around to all my fav shops.

I will be taking you up on that. Heck, I bet NY has great coffee, when I'm there it's usually business but I bet I could do a fun espresso-tour weekend...

[narc]

"Artisan" shops may be able to pull a straight shot, but are they drinkable? Most times not. Normal order when visiting a new shop is requesting a single, double or double ristretto. Barista choice. More times than not it's a disappointment. No reason for the general public to order a straight shot if these disappointment are what is considered an "espresso". May be it is one of the reasons most of us have been driven to where we are. Just think of the times you have pulled a straight shot for family or friends and received the complement of "this is really good, didn't realize what an espresso taste like".

A commercial shop like at home have bad moments where the sink drinks the shots. Need to give the new shop a few attempts. But after consistent sinkers... Few years ago while on vacation I stopped into a small Ma & Pa shop. Pa after pulling the shot requested my feedback. Bit underextracted. He proceeded to readjust the grinder and pull a very respectable double. He had a previous life as a bartender and manager. That and reading up, talking to anyone with an interest about espresso was his "training". So it is possible. Just need the passion.

[miKe mcKoffee]

"Artisan" shops may be able to pull a straight shot, but are they drinkable? Most times not.

If the shot ain't drinkable, and better than merely drinkable, they're not an "Artisan" shop IMO. What are you defining as an "Artisan" shop, any place without a Mermaid? There's a difference between simply an independent shop and an Artisan shop. If the shots don't sing it ain't no Artisan shop period. Tell people like Nick his "Artisan" shop pulled shots aren't drinkable. Hell come in my shop and tell me. Generalizations are generally inaccurate!

[cafeIKE]

If the shot ain't drinkable, and better than merely drinkable, they're not an "Artisan" shop IMO.

Vivace and Luxxe probably qualify as Artisan due to their care and attention, but I find their offerings unpalatable.
It's unlikely anyone would dispute Intelli or Gimme! are Artisan, but I find their offerings marginal.
Hell, some called the "Piss Christ" art.

[miKe mcKoffee]

Vivace and Luxxe probably qualify as Artisan due to their care and attention, but I find their offerings unpalatable.
It's unlikely anyone would dispute Intelli or Gimme! are Artisan, but I find their offerings marginal.

OTOH it could just be a matter of taste preference and not liking some shop's particular style of espresso and shots while said same shot might be scored a 3 or 4 or even higher by competition judging standards. If a person happens to find only a super mellow purely chocolate bomb shot pleases them and then encounter a dynamic fruited shot not fitting their personal preference is that to say it isn't a quality shot?

Not saying that's the case of the quoted cited examples of unpalatable and marginal, just citing an example.

[John P]

I think in terms of espresso shots it IS important to take the same care whether milk drinks or straight shot. However, in practice, there is always that bit of extra care for those who order straight espresso. Even if it's just extra love passed into the cup. ...And I honestly think that's a factor.

Preference of flavor can be subjective, but whether a shot leans toward the God end or the sink end is pretty easy to tell.
Most of the problem with straight shots comes from an inadequate training of the barista which is a reflection on the owner's lack of care. But if the owner takes the time to focus on the espresso it will make all the other drinks that much more impressive.

[Marshall]

Abe,

I used to post critiques on alt.coffee and CoffeeGeek. I stopped for two reasons. I finally realized I was getting special treatment at some shops because the owners or some of the baristas knew me. Second, I enjoy being around coffee people (spent the day with a green broker and his wife today), and prefer to stay on friendly terms with them. So, if I'm not happy with a shot, I just discuss it privately with the barista, instead of broadcasting it to the world.

On the other hand, many of the amateur reviews I read on CoffeeGeek are terribly ill-informed and do a disservice to the shops owners. I'm thinking of the critics who have a sensory vocabulary of four or five words, or demand the shop adhere to some arbitrary rule (must be a ristretto!) or who play "gotcha" (if the latte is the "wrong" size they say nothing to the barista, but throw a hissy-fit on-line) or who never actually drink straight espresso. So, maybe the on-line espresso world needs you as a counterbalance!

[JimWright]

So, maybe the on-line espresso world needs you as a counterbalance!

How 'bout group surveys a la Zagat? If you got a sufficient sample size for any given establishment, you could collect the reviews and post a consensus. There will always be outliers in both experiences at an establishment and reviewer expectations, and this might be a way to filter for that...

[Abe Carmeli]

Abe,

I used to post critiques on alt.coffee and CoffeeGeek. I stopped for two reasons. I finally realized I was getting special treatment at some shops because the owners or some of the baristas knew me. Second, I enjoy being around coffee people (spent the day with a green broker and his wife today), and prefer to stay on friendly terms with them.

Hi Marshall.

And I thought I was an original...I remember some of your reviews by the way, I enjoyed reading them. My enthusiasm to start a formal review has been tempered by the exact experience you described above. Just the mentioning of it as an idea has created a bit of a storm, which I'd rather avoid altogether. It will also require way too much of my time to review all the coffee shops once a month. So I'm going to pass on the idea at this time.