Delivery time for Versalab M3 Grinder - Page 5

[zin1953]

This is an interesting thread to read . . .

To paraphrase that famous line from the McCarthy Era, "I have not now, nor have I ever been, seriously contemplating the purchase of a Versalab M3." But even I'm frustrated by the delays and the waiting! I take everyone who actually has one at their word -- it's a great grinder. But the waiting, the delays, the waiting, the delays . . . it's got to be a combination of having a kidney stone and labor pains: this too shall pass, and the results will be worth it, but . . . sheesh!

If I ever upgrade from my Cimbali Max Hybrid, can't I just get a KS-30???

[mgrayson]

I'm sorry to say that, not only has my grinder not arrived yet (supposedly in the April build), but I have received no answer from my Tuesday email asking for a status update. Not able to find anything more direct, I emailed info@versalab.com. James, how did you manage to elicit an email response?

Thanks,

Matt

[pdx]

Not able to find anything more direct, I emailed info@versalab.com. James, how did you manage to elicit an email response?

Just call Laura at Versalab.

[IMAWriter]

I'll take the Cimbali MJ off your hands for a very reasonable price when you're done with it...

As will I...."put up yer dukes, put up yer dukes"...

[JWPATE]

Matt,
I never got an answer to my e-mail inquiries. Finally I made the phone call and learned that my unit was nearly finished. After that I did get an e-mail message when it was shipped.

It is unpacked now but I have not yet put power to it. I backed off the burr adjustment by a quarter turn, as instructed in the short User's Manual, but it still feels like there is some binding there when I turn the belt by hand. If I really back off the adjustment (couple of turns) then it feels smooth. Now I have lost the initial setting of course. There are no markings until one sticks on the included set of index scale and markers. As it is, I want time to take the thing apart and see what that binding was before going further. Probably tomorrow.

James

[laservet]

As it is, I want time to take the thing apart and see what that binding was before going further.

Don't unscrew the top funnel, you can reach everything safely from the bottom.

[JWPATE]

OK guys I have the grinder ready to try out now.
That binding I could feel when turning the drive by hand was because the moving wiper was contacting the inner surface of the lower funnel. Two issues became evident. First, the contact point was an arc of about 15 degrees near the fixed wiper. At first glance I suspected the two wipers were fouling, but this was not the case. The fixed wiper, on this series, is not like the one shown in the owner's sheets. Rather, it is a simple length of brass wire bent to shape. It is easily adjustable and was set about right from the factory.

The cause of the binding though was with the movable wiper. The little arms of the wiper are easily bent to provide the necessary clearance, but the problem with this unit was that the hole which attaches, and centers the wiper to the drive shaft, was drilled slightly too far out, resulting in too much radius on that arm, and a tight a clearance at the funnel end. The interesting thing is that it only actually made contact at the same little arc on the funnel (near the fixed wiper). This location did not change as I rotated the funnel on its base. So I conclude that the base upon which the funnel rides is slightly out of true. None-the-less, that is not considered to be a big deal as the actual clearance on that moving wiper is not critical. Factory recommendation is about two thicknesses of a business card. I measured a few such cards that I have around, and in rounds numbers that equates to about 0.030 inch clearance. For that purpose I used a short length of welding wire I have in that dimension, as a guide. To correct the ill-fitted wiper arm, I had to oblong the screw-attaching hole slightly, until the arm could be adjusted with the radius right at the 0.030 clearance. The little arms of the wiper could then be bent slightly to provide the same clearance right along their lengths.

It is interesting to note also, that that single screw also fixes both of the moving burrs in place on the drive shaft - an important screw. It looked to be stainless in 1/4 inch / 20 thread, or SAE course thread .........and it was loose enough that I could turn the movable wiper on its shaft! Again this is all right from the factory. The grinder had never been turned on. In view of its importance I decided that a drop of loctite was in order during final assembly. I used blue, knowing that it will need to come back out from time to time.

Anyway, now I am ready to try some beans.

James

[EspressoObsessed]

Today Laura stated, in reply to my phone call, that the grinders from this build would be shipped the middle of next week.

I'm a little concerned about James' grinder problem. I don't think I have the savvy to diagnose the way he does. I'm hoping mine has been turned on prior to shipping and all issues addressed.

Mary

[mgrayson]

I knew I shouldn't have called...

I'm the OP, and as you may remember, every month since January I have called and been told .. "end of this month"

This time was no exception. Last time, I was told that I was in the April build and it would go out at the end of April. This time.. well, there was a Second April build, and my grinder is in THAT build and it won't ....

I am NOT going to call in early June to hear the same. If it ever shows up, wonderful. I'm no longer holding my breath. If you can't give a reliable estimate, then don't give one!

Matt

[DavidMLewis]

That binding I could feel when turning the drive by hand was because the moving wiper was contacting the inner surface of the lower funnel. Two issues became evident. First, the contact point was an arc of about 15 degrees near the fixed wiper.

Hi James,

On my recently-received one, I had a similar issue. When I took the lower funnel off, though, it became clear that the lower burr and burr carrier had excessive runout with respect to the upper burr. I measured with a feeler blade between the lower burr carrier and the fixed wiper, at both the closest and farthest points, and the difference was 0.3 mm, or 0.012". I called Laura and confirmed that the design spec for runout is 0.005", so the grinder had clearly been dropped by UPS. She asked that it be sent back, which I did. It got there Friday, they re-aligned everything, and are shipping it back out tomorrow in better packaging. Something similar may have happened to yours.

As a side-rant, people who care about machinery, as Laura and John obviously do, almost literally cannot imagine how UPS, FedEx, et. al. are capable of treating it. The official spec UPS is willing to sign up to is that they will take responsibility if your packaging is capable of taking three four-foot drops onto a concrete surface on each of the eight corners without damaging the contents. In other words, they are willing to legally promise that they won't do anything worse than throw it out the back of the truck while it's moving. Sebastian at Great Infusions says he regularly has customers report that the drivers have thrown his boxes out onto the ground, "fragile" stickers and all. If you're shipping a machine to someone, keep that in mind.

Best,
David

[laservet]

For someone who is not mechanically inclined, what is "runout?"

[maximatica]

The official spec UPS is willing to sign up to is that they will take responsibility if your packaging is capable of taking three four-foot drops onto a concrete surface on each of the eight corners without damaging the contents. In other words, they are willing to legally promise that they won't do anything worse than throw it out the back of the truck while it's moving. Sebastian at Great Infusions says he regularly has customers report that the drivers have thrown his boxes out onto the ground, "fragile" stickers and all. If you're shipping a machine to someone, keep that in mind.

All you have to do is go down to the local UPS early in the morning when they are transferring boxes from one truck to the other and watch as they pitch any size box from the dock to the guy at the front of the truck. If he catches it great if he doesn't the metal wall will stop it from flying into the cab area.

Anything of high precision that could be damaged by shipping should be shipped by a higher priority system and insured for the full amount. When it comes damaged, make them eat it.

Also, for what it's worth, the holds on many air freight planes are not pressurized/heated like the cabin areas (or they weren't years ago, I'm assuming they still aren't). In other words they get cold very fast as the plane climbs. Different metals will change dimension at different speeds knocking fine adjustments off and then the unit reaches a stable temp nothing will be right (at a microscopic level). We used to have to specify that the shipments went in a special pressurized hold when we had turntable tonearms shipped over or the bearings would be toast.

M./

[DavidMLewis]

For someone who is not mechanically inclined, what is "runout?"

No bearing or shaft runs absolutely true. In this case, the lower burr and carrier would ideally be perfectly concentric with the upper burr and the funnels. The degree to which the lower burr and carrier, when rotated, describe a circle rather than a point, is their runout. Spin a bicycle wheel while it's on the bike, and look at the rim as it moves past a fixed point, like one of the brake pads. If it moves in and out, so as to make that end of the bike rise and fall as it goes down the road, that's radial runout. If it moves side-to-side, so that the brakes pulse when you apply them, that's axial runout.

In a coffee grinder, especially one with flat burrs (or flat fine burrs like the Versalab), a small amount of radial runout is not a problem, since the burr faces are flat where they contact. Too much, though, and things don't work so well; in the Versalab's case, the moving wiper starts to contact things on one side and have too much clearance, so that it doesn't wipe properly, on the other.

It's not my intent, by the way, to make anybody paranoid. My grinder had a definite chirping sound when it arrived, and James' had obvious binding. There's no need to worry about one that doesn't show such obvious symptoms. With mine, furthermore, Versalab is doing exactly the right thing: they told me to send it back, fixed it quickly, and are taking another look at how they package grinders for shipment to reduce the likelihood of this happening in the future. Moreover, I loved using the grinder before I returned it, and fully anticipate loving it even more once it comes back, which should be the end of the week.

Best,
David

[JWPATE]

I am in full agreement with your opinions of the various delivery services. Everything must be packed with the expectation that it will see rough treatment throughout the journey.
In this case though, there was no evidence of damage by the shipper. The cardboard box was crisp and none of the corners were damaged. No cave-ins or deformations anywhere on the carton. Inside, the M3 was packed in a double layer of thick bubble-wrap.
Yet, take a look at the interesting section of pulley edge in the attached photo. I don't blame that on Fed-Ex.

Seems to me that this transaction has left room for improvement........all along the way. From the misleading delivery estimates, right through to the quality control of the delivered grinder.

That said, I will tell you that it is a very simple machine to use and produces outstanding results.

James

[pdx]

Seems to me that this transaction has left room for improvement........all along the way. From the misleading delivery estimates, right through to the quality control of the delivered grinder.

Here's what mine looked like out of the box- again Laura suggested it was fed-ex damage but the packaging looked pretty good. The nick looks like a grinder nick- had a radius to it. I shipped it back & it came back better, though.

[EspressoObsessed]

I should probably not only stop calling Laura for my twice monthly update; I should stop reading this thread! I'm getting too agitated. The more I think about my discussions with her, the less believable she seems. Now Matt (the OP), who ordered his BEFORE me, appears to have been told his machine will be built AFTER mine. A similar situation occurred with James' grinder in comparison to some who ordered after him.

I wouldn't be so bothered if not for the new espresso machine waiting for its uber grinder. Out of frustration, I have ordered a Cimbali Max Hybrid grinder which is back ordered at Chris' Coffee. I'm betting I get the Cimbali before the Versalab arrives. I envision a scenario in which Max H. & I get to know each other very well before the M3 even ships out of the lab. I may not be needing the VL if that happens.

I'm going to try to shut up until I have something materiel to say on this subject.

Mary

[zin1953]

Well, I don't like either picture!

[JWPATE]

Mary,
Yes it is true that I, for one, have a somewhat lower opinion of the Versalab experience than some others have expressed. Simple honesty would have gone a long way. I mentioned in an earlier post that most buyers would be far happier with the process if they were told at the start exactly what the current delivery time is. For the record, it is about six months.

The build quality is sufficient, considering that we are dealing with a coffee grinder. Those machine shop errors, grinding screw-ups, nicks and such - which are now showing up in the photos - are probably to be expected in this kind of limited production. However, to place the blame for them on UPS or Fed-Ex, is sad and shameful.

Still, I think you will be happy when the unit actually arrives and you have a chance to use it for a while. The problem with my moving wiper arm was a simple fix, and you will eventually need to have it all apart for cleaning anyway. I suggest you do that before the first use, while all is still clean. Field strip your grinder and check the gaps of the wipers, along with the security of that drive-shaft Allen screw. The little fixed wiper is a hopeful effort at best. The wire gauge is too small to stand up to the flood of grinds and it quickly bends under the load, placing it in the path of the whirling movable arm. The sheared-off remains on my "fixed-wiper" came out the exit funnel along with the first spoonful of grinds. This, I believe, explains the comments I have read elsewhere, of owners reporting that their grinders didn't actually have a fixed wiper. They discovered this on the first cleaning exercise - while the little wiper had sheared off with the first load of beans. I have replaced my own with a more substantial wire (about double the thickness of the original) and so far it is holding up and working well. Be careful here because you don't want to use too heavy gauge a wire. Remember that if ever something causes it to foul with the spinning wiper-arm; you want the moving arm to easily win. I just believe the factory is taking this precaution a little too far. What they supply will not stand up to the pressure of the grinds.

These are only my opinions of course - and nothing more Mary, so take it for what it is worth. Once you have the machine fully understood and set up correctly I do believe you will like it. The design is very simple. I believe it is best to start by attaching the index markings according to the directions they include. Just can't imagine why anyone would not want the index marks; appearance perhaps, for they are just stick-on affairs. But then this grinder is not likely to win any awards for beauty in industrial design - it has always presented a slightly crude appearance, at least to me. In that regard, I think it looks better with the index marks in place. What I did was use only one of the round dots they provide for placement on the upper funnel side. I first took the funnel adjustment fully clockwise to a point where the burrs are completely closed, and then placed the single dot above number 1 on the scale. Then open the burrs by turning the funnel counter-clockwise about a quarter turn, using the dot as your reference. The beans I am starting with are deliberately heavy, oily dark roast espresso blend. I wanted to test the wiper arms with this kind of load. For these particular beans the 4.5 setting on the index (again close to ¼ turn) is best.
I really don't think I would be as satisfied with another grinder for home use. You learn to feed the beans in slowly.......too fast and they will fill up the conical burr chambers and spit fragments out the top funnel. The only other issue I have is the lack of a grinds tray. Earlier in this thread, CoffeeBuzz recommended the tray from the Le'Lit model PL 53 grinder. Check the photo he also posted. I have one on order from 1st Line.

I also was waiting for a grinder to first use the LM GS3. You will be delighted with that experience.

Regards,
James

[sweaner]

For the price you guys are paying there is no excuse for any of this. "Machine shop errors" should not happen, especially with the limited production. They should not ship units that look like that.

[DavidMLewis]

The only other issue I have is the lack of a grinds tray. Earlier in this thread, CoffeeBuzz recommended the tray from the Le'Lit model PL 53 grinder. Check the photo he also posted. I have one on order from 1st Line.

My local Cost Plus had a square ceramic dish that fit perfectly, for what it's worth.

Best,
David