Dalla Corte Super Mini & Mini Qs

[JimWright]

Has anyone here actually used a Super Mini? I've got a few questions on it, and hoping some kind reader actually has one. (I've read the CG review threads.)

To begin with, besides the larger steam boiler, hot water tap, and use of a rotary pump/external water supply rather than internal reservoir/vibe pump, are there any other differences between the Mini and Super Mini?

Next, if one wished to feed a Super Mini from a bottle (e.g., 5 gallon bottled water jugs), would you need a separate FloJet or other pump to supply line pressure, or can the pump from the unit draw from a static water supply without pressure?

Finally, I read in a few places that Dalla Corte was making changes to the Mini machines while they were being rolled out, so does anyone know what might have been done with the Mini and/or Super Mini in the last year or two since they first started distribution? Thanks!

[Thatchmo]

Bump!

I also am curious to know if anyone has any experience with the Dalla Corte Super Mini!

Thanks...

[gscace]

Bump!

I also am curious to know if anyone has any experience with the Dalla Corte Super Mini!

Thanks...

Pulled a few shots on one at the SCAA show. Used a 3-group DC machine for a week. Nice machines.

-Greg

Whaddya wanna know?

[atao]

how does the extraction compare to a 58mm portafilter? does it allow the flavors of the espresso to come through as compared to other higher-end consumer machines? how would it rate on the forgiveness factor with respect to other nice e61 hx machines or gs3? steam strength?

[orwa]

I have exactly the same questions about the Super Mini as well. I have been putting so many machines into consideration lately for my next new machine (I am not in a hurry at all!), but still has not found the machine that convinces me fully. I am currently leaning toward the Super Mini because of its dual boiler design, the analogue (stepless) temperature control, and the rotary pump. However, I am so much turned off by its excessive ugliness and unreasonable height .

[gscace]

how does the extraction compare to a 58mm portafilter? does it allow the flavors of the espresso to come through as compared to other higher-end consumer machines? how would it rate on the forgiveness factor with respect to other nice e61 hx machines or gs3? steam strength?

I think that the difference between 54 (La Spaz is 53) and 58mm is somewhat overblown. Taste of espressos I sampled from the DC machines that I used was excellent. The machines did quite well in the WBC machine trials that were conducted last January, impressing a lot of highly regarded industry folks.

Compare the DC machines to good pro gear. The brew boiler on all DC machines is the same. Differences are in the steam boiler, water pumping scheme, digital control vs. dial. The mini uses a vibe pump and has a fairly small steam boiler. The super mini has a rotary pump and a bigger boiler. I'm somewhat underwhelmed by many e-61 clones and I think that most are anemic steamers. I think that the hot water dance or whatever is stupid. In my opinion one ought to be able to walk up to an espresso machine, remove the pf, load it, tamp it, clean stray grounds off of the screen with a small flush of no specified volume, shove the pf into the group and make coffee with the same flavor profile of the next shot and the next and the next...... with no particular machine operational expertise required. You oughtta sweat the important stuff, like what coffee, what basket, dose volume, tamp, how to make nice milk, blah woof. Machines should be invisible.

I have not done a comparison between the GS3 and the DC mini / supermini. I hold the GS3 in very high regard. It is an exceptional machine.

-Greg

[atao]

some encouraging thoughts Greg! the brew boiler + grouphead combo does seem like a nice design. plus preinfusion and no flushing, great! eventually someone will get one of these in their hands and ideally do a showdown with a gs3, anita, vibiemme, something like that, and we'll have a bit more reference. those reviews by gammeloft, belle barista were a nice start but they don't go into the espresso taste question quite as much as the hb reviews tend to in terms of clarity.

[zin1953]

some encouraging thoughts Greg! the brew boiler + grouphead combo does seem like a nice design

Yeah, but it's really ugly!

eventually someone will get one of these in their hands . . . .

Andrew, one of the shops inside the Ferry Building has a Dalla Corte Super Mini . . . obviously it's not Peet's, and I can't remember exactly which shop it's in. It's either the Village Market, or (most likely) I Preferiti di Boriana.

That's the only one I've actually seen -- and the store was closing, so I couldn't get them to pull a shot . . .

[Marshall]

However, I am so much turned off by its excessive ugliness and unreasonable height .

If you have only seen pictures, you will probably find it looks better in person. Granted, the plastic cowl does not match the flying saucer beauty of an E-61 head. But, the E-61 is also a heat radiator. The Dalla Corte design is engineer-driven to minimize heat dissipation. So, no pre-flush is required, which means the 3-liter water tank in the Mini will last much longer between refills than in an E-61 machine.

And, yes, the Super Mini is too tall to fit under standard kitchen and home bar cabinets. I assume it was intended for light commercial use.

[mgwolf]

I spent a little time at the DC booth at last weeks SCAA convention. They pulled a shot on the Mini for me which tasted fine, but after the other 30 shots pre and post that day, it has faded from memory and I couldn't give you any more specifics. It seemed to steam pretty well (perhaps not quite as well as my Vivaldi Mini) but my interaction with it was very brief. It's not a very pretty machine, IMO, and the plastic cowl on the front is particularly unattractive. Very nicely designed on the inside. The grouphead is identical to their big machines and is reportedly a VERY good one. The temp adjustment is a rotary dial which appealed to me, but I'm sure would put off many of the more digitally oriented of you.

My only comment on the Super Mini is that it is much larger in person than the impression I had had from pictures. Would look out of place in the average kitchen. I would definitely look at it if you want a 2 boiler machine.

I would echo Greg's comments above about the machine being invisible. I went from an E61 HX to the Vivaldi double boiler and would say that my morning "ritual" (time involved) in pulling a shot decreased by two-thirds. No timing, flush routine, checking temps, timing again, etc. Just fill the PF and go. Michael

[poison]

In my opinion one ought to be able to walk up to an espresso machine, remove the pf, load it, tamp it, clean stray grounds off of the screen with a small flush of no specified volume, shove the pf into the group and make coffee with the same flavor profile of the next shot and the next and the next...... with no particular machine operational expertise required. You oughtta sweat the important stuff, like what coffee, what basket, dose volume, tamp, how to make nice milk, blah woof. Machines should be invisible.

-Greg

Quote of the year right there.

[Thatchmo]

I second that!!!

Seriously...It's what I'm after in a machine...I want to spend my time enjoying espresso with my friends and family, not fiddling with a machine for half an hour...And at it's price point....It doesn't have a lot of competition...The Vibiemme PID'd Double Boiler, the aforementioned Vivaldi II and...what else under 4k?

Kirk

[Beezer]

The Vibiemme PID'd Double Boiler, the aforementioned Vivaldi II and...what else under 4k?

Brewtus II?

[poison]

I second that!!!

Seriously...It's what I'm after in a machine...I want to spend my time enjoying espresso with my friends and family, not fiddling with a machine for half an hour...And at it's price point....It doesn't have a lot of competition...The Vibiemme PID'd Double Boiler, the aforementioned Vivaldi II and...what else under 4k?

Kirk

blasphemy!!! To achieve optimal barista skill, you must learn the vagaries of Silvia inside, out, and in-between; you must seduce that Harpy, and brave her wrath to find her G-Spot. Unless you've spent 3 hours every morning pulling countless sink-shots to capture the elusive god-shot, days studying her seductive reverse water dance, and weeks logging her temperature fluctuations, you will NEVER be a true barista worthy of another machine; for without Silvia you will be nothing but an unfillfilled stain on the tapestry of caffeination.

[edwa]

Me thinks Nate has been sampling too, too, much of his roasts!

[Bushrod]

I would echo Greg's comments above about the machine being invisible. I went from an E61 HX to the Vivaldi double boiler and would say that my morning "ritual" (time involved) in pulling a shot decreased by two-thirds. No timing, flush routine, checking temps, timing again, etc. Just fill the PF and go. Michael

No warming flushes? I do about 6 oz of warming flush on mine.

[poison]

Hey, edwa! Only two doubles for me today, got me feeling feisty.

[Psyd]

I think that the difference between 54 (La Spaz is 53) and 58mm is somewhat overblown.

For me, and I've had this discussion before, it's the availability of inexpensive aftermarket kit that makes the 58mm PF far more attractive than any other. Two fifteen degree PF's with all the trimmings and triple baskets for under forty bucks to my front door? Can't be beat. While the actual espresso produced might not change, or change much, the 58mm PF is the AA battery of espresso machines. You may not get more electricity out of 'em than a C batt, but you can find 'em easier and cheaper the planet over. It is the only reason that the DC is off my list of considered machines to replace my commercial kit. Well, OK, 'much further down on my list'... ; >

In my opinion one ought to be able to walk up to an espresso machine, remove the pf, load it, tamp it, clean stray grounds off of the screen with a small flush of no specified volume, shove the pf into the group and make coffee

Sure! It's only money! I think that the general rule is that you can spend money or do the work. Silvia has more 'hold your mouth right' tricks because she isn't embellished with all the cool technical bypasses of those tricks. The GS3 and its competitors in the pro-sumer market are far more expensive, and far less labor and trickery intensive. If you've got twenty grand, you can even get a machine that'll do it at the push of a button!

[poison]

I dunno. I'd like to know what it costs to produce a dual boiler machine. There has to be a large markup along the way. Most of the innovative R&D was done 50+ years ago, and that cost has been amortized over that time. $2000 for a dual boiler? Why? The cost of brass? The nickel plaque? The 'Made in Italy' sticker? Or is it because it's a non-essential luxury bought by affluent people who will spend $2k?

[RapidCoffee]

In my opinion one ought to be able to walk up to an espresso machine ... and make coffee with the same flavor profile of the next shot and the next and the next...... with no particular machine operational expertise required... Machines should be invisible.

Take this argument to its logical conclusion, and what have you got? A superauto...