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Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by djmonkeyhater on Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:56 am

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The gun is now loaded and I can commence second-guessing myself. I pulled the knob from my Astoria and put on the Rio so there would be insulation between my fingers and the brass switch pole with 220v on the other side.

I stare at the mass of wires going into the switch. Maybe it's me being simplistic, but 220v is better for me to stare at and understand. Both wires are hot, therefore they can't be backwards.

It's got water connected so I stare at the machine, tell my toolbox I love it and switch it on with a gloved hand.

Good things generally happen.

- The autofill circuit clicks, the pump comes on and it runs for about 5 seconds. I had manually filled the boiler with the lever so it didn't have a lot of work to do. It is FANTASTIC that this part works since it's expensive to fix.

- I hear the element come on. There's a sort of creaking sound that the boiler gives when it's being attacked with a bunch of heat.

At this point, some might have advised me to disconnect a wire to the element or pressurestat (element is much easier) and tape it off. This keeps heat out of the initial testing/troubleshooting. We did this on my other machine since it was a total rebuild and didn't know if anything worked. On this one, since it really seemed like it had been working weeks before and I was buying it from someone who told me they used it - I felt like taking the risk. It also has a brand new pressurestat. My other machine had an ancient Penn pressurestat device that I did not feel comfortable with and never sent power to.

One more point - on most of these commercial machines, the heating circuit is entirely independent of the other electrics on the machine save for both being turned on by the same switch. So you can do a lot of diagnostic work on a machine going with the heating element deactivated.

- More creaking. This is good. No new leaks have appeared.

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While it is heating up, I decide to test the dosing pads. I push buttons at random and some at the same time. It's all actually working!

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8-10 minutes later, it comes up to pressure and I hear the pressurestat click off. Nice. Prior to this, I heard the "under pressure" valve click shut. This thing keeps a cooling boiler from filling with a partial vacuum and sucking stuff in. It gives a little spurt when it shuts.

I guess a worry with this could be explosion. However, there is a valve on the top of the boiler that prevents explosion, sort of like a pressure cooker pot has. So if the pressurestat had stayed on, the valve would have started noisily opening and I would then know to shut the machine off. If that over-pressure valve was broken and the pressurestat - I guess it explodes.

I wouldn't say that the machine is hot enough in 10 minutes to be "home-barista espresso ninja" ready, but I will again extol the virtues of 220v and recommend that if people can do it, it's totally worth it. Horsepower is cool.

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I give the steam knobs a spin. There is a lot of steam power in a two-group. To reinforce the thread about home machines being less forgiving than commercial ones - this is a great example. I could turn this machine on, steam a gallon of milk and make a dozen drinks before a Silvia gets to operating temperature.

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And the hot water knob. The autofill fires right up when I do this. I can't really see in the sight glass to check, but it's kinda all working.

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The craigslist deal is looking pretty promising and it's time to see if it will make some brown liquid. My assistants like this part. (Don't drop the RB tamper!)
djmonkeyhater
 
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Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by djmonkeyhater on Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:25 am

At this point, these are the espresso machine specific parts that I think I need to get this one fully functional. I'll think about a couple more items if I decide I want to keep it:

Prices/diagrams courtesy of EPNW. There are a half-dozen other places that sell variously similar pieces. EPNW is near me so they get the reference. And they are nice.

INLET VALVE
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This is where I will start looking for the leak. I think that I'll buy all of the numbered parts which will replace all of the seals and a spring in the mechanism. (I'll not use the pivot pin.) It's not hard to take apart and it'll give me the chance to descale/clean the inside. I could buy a whole new one, but unless it's cracked or something, it's not a good use of $75.

Repair Kit Cost - $4.50
Replacement Cost - $79.10

GROUP HEAD
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One downside of this machine is that there are two of these so I need twice as many of them. This kit includes all of the parts in the group that are either non-metallic, seals or hard to clean. There is a lot of rubber here that spends most of its' life being cooked. AS.54 and AS.56 are completely missing from the right side, so no decision there. AS.56 is the rubber seal (not to scale) that the portafilter pushes against and is one of the most common wear items. I'll probably order a couple extra of these. Since the bells (portafilter receptacle) and portafilters are worn, I need to get some shims to keep them from over rotating when tightened. AS.49 is a small particulate filter to keep chunks out of AS.50 which is the Gigleur or "jet", regulating water volume to the brewing area.

Repair Kit Cost - $28.30 per side
Replacement Cost - $300 per side or so. These are rare.

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This will replace the ugly one on my machine. It's not leaking, which is nice, but it's also not really usable as a means of seeing what is in the boiler. There will be some gymnastics involved in getting this out and back in so don't come looking to see it installed tomorrow. Given the condition of this one, I'll probably break it, get the pieces out and use a torch to remove the gaskets. Rubber turns into fossil in hot environments like this and surgically removing the old glass is a waste of time.

Repair Kit Cost - $18.50
Replacement Cost - Same

So, I'm guessing about $100 in parts to render it 99% operable with no leaks. And I need to get a manual to do the dosing programs. It's pushing a lot more water than it needs to for singles.
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Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by Robbert on Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:20 am

as for the programming: there is not much to it, you press the right button, all four brew button lights come on. you pick one, the water starts running. you stop it again by pressing the right button. it has no memory that stays switched when you turn it off. then when you press the right button only three lights come on (not the one you just programmed)

ALL the electronics on the board have stopped working on my machine after I removed and then reinstalled them including the boiler refill. I made a button to refill the machine manually. do you happen to have any idea of where to find a schematic of the electronics on the green board?
I am pretty sure that I broke something stupid. I just can't figure out what it is.
not a fuse and there is 220 v ac into the transformer and 16v ac out. (the transformer is the black box between all the electronics)

hope your electronics are working because as you said they are soo expensive.
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Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by cannonfodder on Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:07 pm

When I rebuilt my Faema, I got most all the O-rings from the local hardware store. Most were in the 50 cents range. Take the assembly to the local hardware store and see if they have the needed parts in the plumbing department. Anything left, like the group gaskets you will have to order the from an espresso parts dealer.
Dave Stephens
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Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by fflewddur on Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:20 pm

cannonfodder wrote:When I rebuilt my Faema, I got most all the O-rings from the local hardware store. Most were in the 50 cents range. Take the assembly to the local hardware store and see if they have the needed parts in the plumbing department. Anything left, like the group gaskets you will have to order the from an espresso parts dealer.


doh! I forgot to check that. I'm still a few o-rings shy on my faema, and I've been reluctant to pay for shipping & < 1 a ring.
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fflewddur
 
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Lots of Italian Stainless Needed!

Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by Sink-Shooter on Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:06 pm

djmonkeyhater wrote:Now I'm having trouble bringing myself to dismantling it. It's not in bad shape at least cosmetically. Maybe there is a person somewhere in the USA that needs a lot of Italian stainless.


Ummmmm, I'll have no trouble dismantling that....... Just crate her up, strap on your best anti-hernia device and ship to me!
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Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by ntwkgestapo on Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:35 pm

Another good source for O-Rings is your local boating repair shop. Boat drives take all kinds of O-Rings, Flaired seals, etc. I've not yet come up empty taking an "odd" seal to one of my local boat repair shops. Even found many that are "food" grade!
Steve C.
I'm having an out of coffee experience!
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Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by bernie on Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:57 pm

djmonkeyhater wrote:This is where I will start looking for the leak. I think that I'll buy all of the numbered parts which will replace all of the seals and a spring in the mechanism. (I'll not use the pivot pin.) It's not hard to take apart and it'll give me the chance to descale/clean the inside. I could buy a whole new one, but unless it's cracked or something, it's not a good use of $75.

Repair Kit Cost - $4.50
Replacement Cost - $79.10

.



I have had these valves fail several times at my store on an Astoria auxilliary steamer. I had rebuilt the valves. The problem is that the machine is plumbed directly into the building water and when the valve failed the machine proceeds to turn the cold water side of the building into a steamer circuit. Replaced the entire unit several years ago and have not had problems since. Having a customer tell you they see steam shooting out of the handsink in the restroom is an attention getter.
Bernie
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Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by cannonfodder on Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:12 pm

bernie wrote:
Having a customer tell you they see steam shooting out of the handsink in the restroom is an attention getter.
Bernie


Just tell them that is the new hygienic, no touch hand sterilization system. It is all the rage overseas. :shock:
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Very entertaining!...

Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by danetrainer on Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:23 pm

I thought I had bitten off more than I could chew when I volunteered(?!) to repair the Faema Compact that
my friend purchased and donated to the church about 5 years ago, it had been sitting in a back store room for the last year and a half...repairs were going to be into the $3000 range (buy a new one?) I don't know where they
get that kind of an estimate...but I suppose with onsite service and so-on...

You have given me renewed optimism that I can pull this off...my hats off to you my friend! Last night I had to
chisel out the grouphead gasket where the portafilter seals into it...the screen is completely ruined with carbon
petrified coffee grounds permanently imbedded 1/8" thick! I am guessing they lost the tamper and were just
filling as much grounds into the portafilter as possible and then locking it into the grouphead assuming that
was tamping! Anyway, I am about a day away of receiving the parts I ordered and will have my first test run...

Best of luck...
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Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by djmonkeyhater on Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:51 pm

I'll come clean and let you all know that the machine and I have been separated but I'll continue to detail the saga.

When we last left the RIO, my two barista assistants were excited to help me check out the machine. I let it sit hot for a couple hours and then decided to see if it would make coffee.

We ground some beans using my trusty Virtuoso basement grinder, filled up the portafilter and voila - a sales video for the new owner to be....

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=mTLYBH2DiVk[/youtube]

It works. At this point, I wouldn't drink the coffee but I think it's about 90% likely to be safe. We've looked in the boiler and pumped a lot of water through the groups. I'd recommend a descale and a couple more gallons of water to be sure.

And I did recommend that to the proud new owner of the Rio - my brother in Kentucky. He's into the espresso thing since he came to visit last summer, sampled the neighbors Carimali until he got sick to his stomach and has been desirous of a machine since. He broke an old Barista out of storage, bought a Virtuoso and got after it. He watches CL a lot but there's no action in KY. So it fell to me to hook him up.

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This is the base of the crate that will carry it to the lower Midwest. It's a little long since I have to fit the pump in there and just because I owe my brother a couple birthday presents - John made me a sweet deal on a clean, refurbed Anfim Grinder that I bolted in there.

He's more meticulous than I am so we'll see what he comes up with.

His handle is "Sink-Shooter".
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Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by networkcrasher on Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:23 am

Sad to see you're done with it. Loved watching your updates!

What a lucky brother. I'm lucky that my brothers live a few miles away, so I can just have them over for espresso... :-)
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New Sheriff in town!

Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by Sink-Shooter on Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:47 am

2600 miles later and the Rio has a new home. So how does one ship 150lbs of Copper and Stainless..............

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You saw the base going together in Deejay Primate-loather's last post. This is the finished crate. The legs were removed from the machine and their holes were used to lag it to the base. The walls were attached next and various packing material was placed inside with some other goodies one in particular named Anfim Super Best. That will be another thread as I try to fine tune it's bean mass from hopper to portafilter ratio. Lots of grinds get lost in the journey.

Here are a few other shots.

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The grinder was strapped to the right side of the crate just in front of the pump. I started pulling everything apart like a kid with his Christmas presents before stopping to get the camera. I will include a photo of the grinder later for your viewing pleasure.

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Simple, but effective. Forklift came down ramp at shipping terminal and loaded it right in the back of my truck.(Yes my truck works and does not reside on blocks in the front yard.)
Originally, I was told to just go get a few connections and hook it all up. I am a little more OCD than that, so I decided to tinker a bit and see what I was working with.




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Just a few more pieces and I think I'll have it! Notice the bent tab/mount for the right Steam Valve. Wasn't my shoddy work. In fact the culprit may have left his card on the side of the machine. I certainly wouldn't advertise that! Later on you can see what that bent tab meant for the stem of the steam valve.

Currently enjoying a cup of fresh ground coffee brewed with an Aeropress. I will never go back to anything brewed in volume.
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Back to the Garage

Link to "Craigslist 2 group Rio - walkaround and firing up machine of unknown condition"by Sink-Shooter on Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:18 pm

So when I got the machine a few weeks back I decided wanted to strip it down, inspect all parts for serviceability and then rebuild into a reliable home machine. I am not exactly sure of what's on it's resume, but I gather it was worked pretty hard. As I disassembled the machine it was pretty apparent that it was serviced to a minimum standard with an intent to return to service, rather than maintain an investment. It would be like running a car at Le Mans. When you lined up on the starting grid, you had a purpose built, highly tuned, polished race car. At every pit stop, your goal wasn't to keep a museum piece, but rather to fix the car as soon as possible and get it back on the track. However, at the end of the race, the car goes back to the shop for a complete overhaul and is once again returned to it's highly tuned and polished state. I bought this machine after it's first race, now it's time to tear it apart and bring it back to it's starting grid glory.

So, where to start...... To make this rebuild flow in a semi organized manner, I have decided to start with some electrics and then follow the flow of water from the inlet of the machine to the shot glass. I will try to cover it all, but Djmonkeyhater may be hard to keep up with. Sometimes I find myself spinning wrenches without the camera.

My advice when taking a machine apart is take pictures, notes and ALWAYS USE PROPER TOOLS AND SUPPORTS!!!!! Think before you wrench, i.e. don't accidentally tighten when you are working on something backwards or with two wrenches. Organize your space and keep some groups clustered together before you further break them down into their individual components.

I knew I had lots of pictures, compliments of my brother, already posted to refer to, so I just took some more of my own to cover the bases and for documentation. Not knowing anything about espresso machines, three-way valves, flow meters, pressure stats etc, I spent some time learning the basics through self education and asking questions. It really helps to know what you are looking at before you create a mountain of parts on your workbench. Really, I knew nothing other than I really like this stuff(espresso) and how can I make it on my own. I feel pretty confident I could now draw every pipe and tell you flow of the water all from memory.

To begin, I needed a good workspace to support the machine and allow for movement so I could get to all the different parts. I ended up reassembling the shipping crate and setting it atop a creeper. It allowed excellent height and 360 degrees of rotation. See below (picture was taken way into the disassembly, but only one I had of the stand)

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I removed all the panels and documented the electronics with lots of photos and a homemade, color coded wiring diagram. I am sure the electrical engineers would find my drawings pathetic, but they are simple and they work. Three pages in length, they cover every connection as I found it. Original no, but working yes. When I redo the electrics, I will try to return them to their OEM state.


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Above is the main Power Switch. I found it would not turn freely to the on direction, however it would turn back just fine. Inspection showed a wire that had shorted in the #1 connection. In the picture(not the best) you can see the copper strands just sitting there exposed, but not going anywhere. Hmmmmmm, wonder what this originally connected to?

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After taking it further apart(above), you can see where the switch began to melt from the heat of the short. I am confident this distorted the plastic and made it difficult to rotate freely. Add to the parts list.
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