Compak K-10 grinder, availability, opinions?

[julioale]

...Split from Macap MXK or Mazzer Kony? by moderator....


Hi:

where I can find Compak in USA?

Ale

[HB]

I stopped by the Compak booth at the SCAA conference. According to the nice sales representative, there are no US importers at this time. She said you can order directly from the factory. Hard to believe they'd sponsor the USBC and have no US presence... corrections welcome.

[Teme]

I stopped by the Compak booth at the SCAA conference. According to the nice sales representative, there are no US importers at this time. She said you can order directly from the factory. Hard to believe they'd sponsor the USBC and have no US presence... corrections welcome.

Compak is looking to set up an office in the US (New York) in the very near future (at least according to this).

Br,
Teme

[another_jim]

I sent an email to Compak about the K-10 WBC grinders. They will have a US distributor by September. Until then they sell factory direct at pricing competitive with the Macap and Max, presumably after receiving a wire transfer. A group buy might get some quantity discounts.

BTW, Compak is owned by Ascaso, so service shouldn't be a major problem.

[cannonfodder]

Funny you mention that. I just mentioned to Dan that I was saving for a conical provided they live up the hype. I have to admit I am a little behind the ball and know little about Compak. I know it has been talked about lately but my knowledge stops there.

I will have to look them up and see what the buzz is about. If they live up to the hype, I may be in for one. I have been lusting over a Kony but the latest price increases have pushed it beyond my reach. The wife would kill me if I spent $1500+ on a grinder.

[jesawdy]

I probably should just chuck 'em all and buy that Compak WBC.... but what do you guys think of this?

http://www.laranzato.com/grinders.html

Jim, have you played on that Compak WBC spec? BTW, what do they do with the SCAA show grinders?

[HB]

I'd like to know more about the Compak WBC model. It didn't impress me on fit and finish. They wouldn't give me the time of day at the SCAA booth.

[cannonfodder]

From what I can find on the Internet, the only real difference between the K10 and the K10 WBC is the grind speed. They are both 68mm conical burrs, 1700 gram hopper 300 gram doser, 17KG, 210x365x635 (WxDxH) but the K10 spins at 400 rpm while the WBC version spins at 300 rpm. The standard also comes in Champagne while the WBC is black.

Your comment about the fit and finish are a little troublesome, especially since I have not seen one. I have not seen that issue mentioned elsewhere, maybe it was beat up in shipping?. I am still interested. Comments I have seen put the quality over the MACAP with faster grind speed than the Kony in a smaller package. A shorter hopper would be nice. I wonder if the short hopper from my Mini would fit?

[HB]

When I refer to fit and finish, I mean the adjustment dial, covers, etc. They looked sloppy by Mazzer standards.

[kanoyu]

I emailed (in English) Compak last week about purchasing a K-10 in the U.S. I received a very polite reply today (in English) that indicated that they are scheduled to open a warehouse in the U.S. in September. It also said that if I wanted to order a grinder before then, I could place the order directly with them.

I am very interested, but have a few questions for those who have seen/used one (Teme, has yours arrived yet?).

- How easy/difficult is it to clean? I understand that it has a stepless worm gear. (My Ascaso I1 has a worm gear that I have to turn until the top burr housing makes four full revolutions--can you say hand cramp?)
- Is there a 'release' on the worm gear that would make it somewhat easier to move the collar for a coarser grind (French Press/Eva Solo)?
- I couldn't tell from the pictures what, if any, kind of incremental markings are on the collar. (Again, the Ascaso doesn't have any, which was the biggest frustration out of the box.)
- The pictures on the Compak site show the doser lever on the left. I read somewhere that this can be switched to the right side. Is this true?

My other considerations at this time are Macap MXKR and Versalab M3 (with recent enhancements)--I think the Kony is just too big.

Thanks for any and all help.

[gtrman]

Sorry if this question has already been asked, but I didn't see it on the previous pages of this thread:
Has anyone been quoted a price for the K10 in the US and willing to share that quote?

[another_jim]

Jim, have you played on that Compak WBC spec?

The people using it in competition all seemed to think it's good; and there's been no negative comments since. The people abroad seem to prefer it to the Kony. Probably this means it has fewer issues with clumping, levelling and dosing; rather than anything more profound. However, Dan is right about the fit and finish; which reminds me of the Innova.

To me, this seems a classic Spanish grinder like the Cunill -- solid, but not as well finished as the Italian ones. However, if one steps up to a conical, economy may be tempting. The 1HP spec for the motor is contradicted in the detailed documentation, which gives 1/2 HP (350 watts).

The Macap may be easier to operate hopperless, since the Compak seems to have an interlock lie the Kony.

[RapidCoffee]

From what I can find on the Internet, the only real difference between the K10 and the K10 WBC is the grind speed. They are both 68mm conical burrs, 1700 gram hopper 300 gram doser, 17KG, 210x365x635 (WxDxH) but the k10 spins at 400rpm while the WBC version spins at 300 rpm. The standard also comes in Champagne while the WBC is black.

The 1HP spec for the motor is contradicted in the detailed documentation, which gives 1/2 HP (350 watts).

Technical specs from the Compak website indicate the two K-10 models are virtually identical (300rpm, 1HP, etc.). Instruction manual lists 370W @ 110V and 450W @ 220V for the K-10 Conic. The WBC model has a different doser and lacks a built-in tamper. Hard to see any other differences.

I'm interested.

[Teme]

Teme, has yours arrived yet?.

Yep. Finally got it today. I know it wasn't going to be small, but the size was still a bit of a shock. I will have a challenge convincing my better half on keeping this beast - her first reaction was: "It's too big"

How easy/difficult is it to clean?.

Initial impression is that it is about the same in terms of cleaning as the doser version of the Mazzer Mini that I had in the past. The good thing is that there is nothing to remove - no finger guards, no auto-grind sensors - the chute is directly accessible once you lift the "hood". The doser will probably benefit from the sweep / tape mod (just like the Mazzer did). I like the the action of the doser better than the Mazzers (I've only tried Minis and SJ's, though).

I understand that it has a stepless worm gear. (My Ascaso I1 has a worm gear that I have to turn until the top burr housing makes four full revolutions--can you say hand cramp?)
- Is there a 'release' on the worm gear that would make it somewhat easier to move the collar for a coarser grind (French Press/Eva Solo)?

The adjustment is stepless, but no worm gear here. The collar moves a bit like that of a Mazzer, but I believe you are moving the bottom burr, not the top burr when making the adjustment in the Compak.

- I couldn't tell from the pictures what, if any, kind of incremental markings are on the collar. (Again, the Ascaso doesn't have any, which was the biggest frustration out of the box.)

Yes, there are markings on the collar.

- The pictures on the Compak site show the doser lever on the left. I read somewhere that this can be switched to the right side. Is this true?

Yes. Mine was delivered with the doser lever on the right, but it can be swapped over to the other side if you are left-handed.

I managed to dial the Compak in already (this was quick and easy to do compared to the Casadio). I also attached a timer to it, i.e. the grinder is on 24/7 (it only has an on/off switch, no other gimmicks) and I use the timer to trigger the grind. The timer is adjustable to the 10th of a second and so far 7.8 sec seems to yield a perfect dose for a ~17g double. The initial distribution is very good. Having said this, the Casadio is superior (and that is quite something for a doserless grinder). The doser on the Compak throws very slightly to the left if one thwacks intensively (but a lot less so than the Mazzer Mini).

No comments on the taste yet as the coffee I have is too fresh (roast from Sunday and another batch from today).

Br,
Teme

[kanoyu]

Teme,
Thanks for the details. Wow! 8 seconds for 17 grams--what will I do with all that time! Maybe grind two doubles, distribute, and tamp while I flush....Some incentive to be expeditious.

I'll look forward to your tasting and further evals.

[luca]

The people abroad seem to prefer it to the Kony. Probably this means it has fewer issues with clumping, levelling and dosing; rather than anything more profound.

Actually, I think that the reason why a lot of people over here prefer it to the Kony is because it is faster! I'd say that, if anything, the Kony at work is better at dose and distribution.

I'm not sure, but I get the impression that the K10 is supposed to be a Robur competitor, not a Kony competitor.

Cheers,

Luca

[Teme]

When I refer to fit and finish, I mean the adjustment dial, covers, etc. They looked sloppy by Mazzer standards.

Dan is right about the fit and finish; which reminds me of the Innova.

To me, this seems a classic Spanish grinder like the Cunill -- solid, but not as well finished as the Italian ones. However, if one steps up to a conical, economy may be tempting..

Your comment about the fit and finish are a little troublesome, especially since I have not seen one. I have not seen that issue mentioned elsewhere, maybe it was beat up in shipping?. I am still interested. Comments I have seen put the quality over the MACAP with faster grind speed than the Kony in a smaller package.

In my opinion the Compak is well finished. It may not be quite up to Mazzer standards, but it definitely is not far from it. Not enough to annoy me in any way, at least. The build is clearly superior to a Rocky, a Cunill or my Casadio (the last is not hard to achieve).

From what I can find on the Internet, the only real difference between the K10 and the K10 WBC is the grind speed.

There are other differences. The WBC has:

- no auto-grind - only the on/off switch
- no built in tamper (it has the WBC sticker instead - this can naturally be removed)
- different portafilter forks (shorter, but plastic instead of metal - but the plastic feels durable)
- lower rpm (at least used to - not sure if the standard K10 also comes with 300 rpm these days)
- only available in black

A shorter hopper would be nice. I wonder if the short hopper from my Mini would fit?

Nope. The throat of the Compak is narrower. You can chop the stock hopper, though (something I'll be doing before the end of the week).

The 1HP spec for the motor is contradicted in the detailed documentation, which gives 1/2 HP (350 watts).

It says "730W in" and "450W out" on the side of mine. Not quite sure what to make of it.

The Macap may be easier to operate hopperless, since the Compak seems to have an interlock lie the Kony.

No interlock. It runs just fine without the hopper.

Br,
Teme

[Ken Fox]

No interlock. It runs just fine without the hopper.

Br,
Teme

Hi,

Here's another question; would this Compak grinder be suitable for use as a "cupping grinder," by this meaning usable on a shot by shot basis for switching between blends or single origins, with the hopper removed?

There are a couple of aspects to this question. The first is whether the grinder will grind consistently without a whole pile of beans above the burrs. If you were to pour in 25g of beans into the throat of the grinder, would it grind them as if there was a larger quantity of beans in the hopper, or would the grind become inconsistent and hence unusable in this fashion to pull a single "double" shot?

The second question is whether the bean wastage when used for single shot grinding, would be so great, that one would have to use some large quantity like 50g, just to get a single 14-20g "serving" of grinds for use in single shot mode? This would be the case if lots of grinds end up getting distributed all over, around the burrs, in the chutes, in the doser -- and that this wastage was considerable. Any grinder of this size with burrs of this size is obviously going to have some wastage.

Thanks for any insight you can shed on these questions.

ken

[Teme]

A couple of images of the K10 WBC:

Pic 1: Here you can (just) see the chute. It is fairly long and does retain some ground coffee. It is easy to clean as is - no need to remove or cut off parts.


Pic 2: The adjustment collar. The larger knob is for attaching the hopper. The small is for locking the grind adjustment.


Pic 3: The burrs are pretty tough to photograph and this image is not very good, but you get the idea.


Pic 4: The doser sweeps pretty clean, but as I noted before, it will benefit from the sweep mod.


Pic 5: The timer that I am currently running with the K10.


Br,
Teme

[another_jim]

Thanks Teme,

The wattage begins to make sense -- it's a geared, not a direct drive; so that there is (if I remember my high school physics) a rise in torque, but drop in power.

I emailed Emilio at Compak again and he confirms that the grinder will work as well at least as well as the flat burr mazzers for cupping or varying coffees:

1. The grind adjustment is not a micrometer screw, but a hand turn -- the screw is to lock the setting. Switching from espresso to FP and back is no hassle

2. The grinder will operate and feed without a hopper. Judging by your picture, it has the smoothest throat (no ledges or hangups) of any espresso grinder I've looked at.

It's hard to judge fit and finish until one has the grinder actually grinding, as opposed to just eyeballing it -- good fit and finish == no rattling or vibration.

I think I'll be taking the plunge on this; the pros using it like the grinder, and it looks like it's as easy to adapt for general purpose home use as a mini. I'll miss the perfectly tamper pluggable 58 mm size of the mini though.