Clumping and Tamping - Page 2

[Randy G.]

The years before the naked portafilter's appearance most of us were satisfied with the espresso we made at home. The only remedy we had was to adjust the grind and maybe some adjustments to the espresso maker to improve the shot.

But that is only based on the knowledge you had at the time. There were still adjustments to be made in dosing and tamping. Just because you were unaware of the effect that these had on the extraction did not mean that those changes these was not available.

But we were enjoying our shots, some were good, some were great, and some were bad.

Ignorance IS bliss, no?

I think the process is now more important then enjoying the product.

I hope you are kidding.... a winky would have helped. Otherwise, I have to say that I think that sentence is nonsense. If you are going to remove the importance of the process and disregard details that can make the product better, you might as well be drinking instant and save ALL the trouble of paying attention to what you are doing.

[Psyd]

Greetings,
Do baristas in a competition mix the ground beans with needles, pins, and other pointed objects? If not, why not?

No. But the real reason is that the competitors tend towards techniques that they use in practice at their shops as well as competition.
Some of the techniques discussed, and even developed here, are the result of using equipment with shortcomings. The WDT is specifically to break up clumps and evenly distribute the grounds in the basket. If the grinder that you're using does that sufficiently, the WDT is a waste of time, and may even (it has been suggested) aid in the migration of fines to the bottom of the basket.
Every barista does, though, have some sort of ritual that borders on OCD or a religious sanctification rite. This is so that the preparation of the basket in each PF is as identical as one can make it. I'm pretty sure that the 'Chicago Chop' wasn't laughed at, and neither was the 'Stockfleth's Move', nor the constant thwacking of the grinder, or balancing a tamper to get a flat and even tamp. All of these 'tricks' were introduced in competition by a xBC hopeful, and they've been adopted by others because, well, they worked.
The judges wouldn't laugh at you, they'd score you on your drinks. If the espresso in the drinks were better than that of your competitors, I'm pretty sure that they don't care what your technique was, as long as it was sanitary and took less than fifteen minutes.
Ya do what works for you, and you ignore those that are laughing at you or sneering up their sleeves. It's about the coffee, not about how 'cool' you look.

[HB]

Some of the techniques discussed, and even developed here, are the result of using equipment with shortcomings.

Well said.

If the espresso in the drinks were better than that of your competitors, I'm pretty sure that they don't care what your technique was, as long as it was sanitary and took less than fifteen minutes.

In years past, SCAA workshop instructors specifically asked that sensory judges not watch the competitor prepare the drinks lest they be influenced by what they observe. However, I don't believe there's any rule against it. As for me, I was too busy scoring the last drink, listening to the competitor, and writing notes. Even if I did notice something "unusual" in their preparation, I would not care when it came time to score the drinks. That's the tech judges' job.

[Psyd]

Coming from a judge, what would the tech judge consider 'unusual' in preparation that was sanitary and under fifteen minutes for the dozen, that would take points off? What do you have to do to a PF basket full of grounds before the judge blows the whistle and throws a flag?

[HB]

I can't think of anything, but Barry has probably seen it all.

The tech judge focuses on waste reduction, consistency, cleanliness, etc. They do not impose specific preparation steps other than well-accepted convention like "flush the group before the extraction." If someone wanted to WDT in competition, they certainly would not dock points. Tap the portafilter? Sure, no problem. Don't tap the portafilter? Go for it. Tap the portafilter one time and don't tap it the next? Oops, points off.

[Marshall]

The judges wouldn't laugh at you, they'd score you on your drinks. If the espresso in the drinks were better than that of your competitors, I'm pretty sure that they don't care what your technique was, as long as it was sanitary and took less than fifteen minutes.
Ya do what works for you, and you ignore those that are laughing at you or sneering up their sleeves. It's about the coffee, not about how 'cool' you look.

I dunno. There was a big flap last year in Long Beach about the barista who made the judges drink her specialty drink from beer hats with straws. There is definitely a "performance" element to the competition.

That's Jim Schulman in the middle:

[HB]

Please excuse this diversion. Here's another point of view of Jim Schulman hard at work as sensory judge...

[cannonfodder]

You should have seen her dress. If she showed up at my work dressed like that, she would have been sent home. Maybe it was for the distraction of the tech judges.

At any rate, as the quality of my kit has improved, the voodoo needed in the preparation of my espresso has dramatically dropped. When you are running PID Marzocco and Robur, you just don't need to stir grounds and temperature surf. Just grind/dose/tamp/pull repeat.

[Marshall]

You should have seen her dress. If she showed up at my work dressed like that, she would have been sent home. Maybe it was for the distraction of the tech judges.

Actually, Tatiana is the co-owner of her shop near the University of Washington. The location inspired her to do a performance piece based on the frat boys and sorority girls she serves there. Unfortunately, quite a few people took offense.

[another_jim]

Actually, Tatiana is the co-owner of her shop near the University of Washington. The location inspired her to do a performance piece based on the frat boys and sorority girls she serves there. Unfortunately, quite a few people took offense.

Technically, her performance was tight, and her espresso and cappa were good enough to get her into the next round. Moreover, she's the only competitor I've ever seen who could ride a tray over the shoulder, one handed; something even most waiters can't manage anymore.

She got clobbered in the scoring, and then criticized afterwards, because competitors and their performances are supposed to represent the profession (this is part of the rules). My feeling is that mandating this sort of "representing" is not a good thing; a confident profession has no problem making fun of itself.

On the original question. In barista competition, competitors are allowed their own grinders, or they can use the supplied Compak conical, which many do. I use the Compak, and it is relatively clump free. But the hot grinders, like the Anfim this year, are the ones that dose the most clump free and evenly. This is why you don't see the WDT in competition.

For home users, doserless grinders seem to exercise a nigh addictive fascination. I've given up shouting vainly as people sleepwalk towards them. The WDT is Doserless Anonymous for buyers who have hit their clumpy bottoms.

[miKe mcKoffee]

You should have seen her dress. If she showed up at my work dressed like that, she would have been sent home. Maybe it was for the distraction of the tech judges.

Maybe yes maybe no. If she showed up at work at my shop dressed like that she'd have a very good tip day. Not even close to as skimpy as some of the bikini or even pasties being seen at some places these days, seriously. Wages ain't that great for barista in this country, doing what they can to improve tips is a reality. Sure most of those bikini drive thrus are not about the 'spro at all, nonetheless a sexy female barista in a downtown business district serving killer shots will make much better tips. Fact of life. So in reality IMO her attire did reflect real life trends in the coffee industry. And yes I'm a happily married for 28 years letcher.

[cannonfodder]

Actually, Tatiana is the co-owner of her shop near the University of Washington. The location inspired her to do a performance piece based on the frat boys and sorority girls she serves there. Unfortunately, quite a few people took offense.

I was not in attendance so I only have photos to reference from. The theme is unique but when you are trying to present yourself as a fun loving professional barista a little more conservative attire may be wise. Not that I don't mind looking at the photo, again, and again, and.... I just don't think it was appropriate for the venue. In my office, she would not have gotten through the front door but there may have been a bunch of guys with their faces pushed against a window somewhere. If I owned a café, I still would have sent her home, just a little over the top for my personal preference, unless we are on a beach.

[Psyd]

You should have seen her dress. If she showed up at my work dressed like that, she would have been sent home. Maybe it was for the distraction of the tech judges.

I know that this is going to sound like an attack on you, Dave, but it isn't. It's an attack on this prevalent idea that somehow if they don't dress or think like you, they aren't 'professional'. This is probably why she became a barista and not a sariman. Some of us will trade the sportscoat and tie, and even the polo and dockers, for more utilitarian or comfortable dress. Or maybe more expressive and less conformist? You know what we all say behind your backs, doncha? "If you can't take a joke..."
I do have to say that a person working in a University environment will dress quite differently than the person working in the business district, and I couldn't care less. What I care about is that they're nice, accommodating, and can pull 'spro like a pro. Her dress was appropriate for her professional life, it was clean, and neat. Really, what else can you want from a professional.
Something tells me that the issue with her attire was more one of a narrow-minded, hyper-focused (on the wrong things, possibly) crowd than it was with her actual clothing.
Some folks still have a problem with a bit of freedom. Freedom of choice means their choices, too, you know. Just because they aren't your choices doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad.

[RapidCoffee]

For home users, doserless grinders seem to exercise a nigh addictive fascination.

That's because dosers cannot be used for their intended purpose (dosing) in a home environment. In home use, dosers are "thwacked" to help break up clumps. But a good grinder design should not produce clumps in the first place, eliminating the need for thwacking, WDTing, etc.

Several grinder manufacturers (including Mahlkonig and Mazzer) now offer high-end doserless grinders for commercial use. So it's not just the home market any more. Whenever you grind on demand, doserless makes a lot of sense. It's just that many of the current implementations are not quite ready for prime time.

[another_jim]

In home use, dosers are "thwacked" to help break up clumps. But a good grinder design should not produce clumps in the first place, eliminating the need for thwacking, WDTing, etc.

This may be good design, but at the moment it's pure science fiction, about as real as weightless concrete.

The Versalab uses a rotating sweeper vane arrangement to declump the grinds. Dosers also declump, as does WDT. The newer doserless design force the grinds through a wire grid. This usually works but can backfire; in high humidity, you get buckshot pellets.

I suspect that grinders willl always need to have an explict declumping mechanism, and that no design for transporting grinds that seems to be inherently clump free.

[RapidCoffee]

Jim, you may well be correct. But still... the Versalab does produce a remarkably clump-free grind. Even the lowly KitchenAid Pro grinder, with its vertically-mounted burrs (and no declumping mechanism), does a good job in this respect. The problem with Mazzers, Macaps, and most other commercial grinders found in home use, is the extrusion of grinds through a horizontal chute. The grinds are compressed in the chute and form clumps. I submit that better designs are possible, and these will lead to significant improvements in grinder usability, both in the home and the commercial cafe.

[another_jim]

Yeah, I would like to see a grinder with vertically mounted high quality burrs.

[Navin]

Personally, I don't really care whether a grinder creates clumps or not, nor am I particularly bother about "declumping." I just care about the quality of the extraction. For instance, I have a doserless Iberital MC2 which I use as a backup espresso grinder and it produces a rather clumpy grind. However, with a fairly straightforward "finger sweep" distribution and no particular procedures for declumping, the extractions are fine in taste and in appearance with a bottomless portafilter; as a quick test, I tried stirring things up with a needle but that didn't noticeably affect the quality of the extraction.

[HB]

Navin makes a good point: Clumps are not created equal. For example, the Macap MXK clumps, but the extractions were even and predictable without any post-dose treatment. Perhaps the benign nature of its clumps are attributable to the conical burrs.

[hbuchtel]

An unspoken (?) theme running throughout this and similar topics is how much easier it is to see differences then taste differences...

I just pulled two shots- two 15g baskets, one with a full WDT treatment and one with only dosing + tamping. Looking at the bottomless PF the difference was striking. The WDT basket had a textbook beginning and even blonding, while the dose+tamp basket had an uneven beginning and blonding (the tamp was canted to one side- poor dosing!). It was obvious to me which one was 'better.'

The problem is... the two cups tasted the same to me! Which is to say I didn't have a preference for either of them, and they both met my basic expectations for quality.

As long as most some of the online opinions are being written by people who, like me, are much better at picking out visual differences then flavor differences, there will be two different standards running alongside each other- a high visual standard and a low(er) (or just less demanding/discerning) standard for taste.

I'm not sure how well I expressed that thought , but I'm sure y'all know what I'm talking about...

Regards, Henry