Choosing between Fiorenzato Bricoletta, Andreja Premium and Elektra A3

[Spencer]

We are considering a replacement for our 23 year old La Pavoni Eurobar. We have a direct plumbing connection and the machine will be next to the sink, so a direct drain will work as well. We've been looking at the Fiorenzato Bricoletta Semi-Automatic, the Quick Mill Andreja Premium with a direct connection kit, and as a stretch the Elektra A3 Semi-Automatic. The various reviews suggest its unlikely we would go wrong with any of them, but there are no direct comparisons. I'm curious if anyone has an opinion, particularly on whether or not the Elektra A3 is worth the additional thousand dollars? The other issue is steam. Part of the family wants foam as opposed to hot milk, so any opinions on that would be welcome as well.

Thanks.

[HB]

Spencer, you've come to the right place:

Fiorenzato Bricoletta - A Pro's Perspective
Buyer's Guide to the Andreja Premium
Buyer's Guide to the Elektra A3 (currently on The Bench)

The Elektra is in an entirely different class than the Bricoletta and Andreja Premium, which are impressive machines in their own right. The attention to fit and finish, capacity (6L boiler, 2000W heating element), and size are examples of what distinguishes it.

But as you'll read in my writeup, the A3 isn't for everyone. First of all, it is big. And generates a lot of heat. None of the three machines you mention are the type that just "blends in" to the background of your average kitchen. They all call attention to themselves -- yet Elektra really cries out for a dedicated espresso bar. Many machines have come and gone from our kitchen and the A3 is the only one so far that has managed to tempt me to replace La Valentina. But the size is the deal breaker (well, I should say for my wife it's the deal breaker; I'd happily "deal" with it ).

PS: I see that you posted the same question on CoffeeGeek (link). In general, we discourage cross-posting, whether the sites are HB, CG, alt.coffee, TMC, etc. because there is an overlap in memberships. I recommend that you pick the site that best fits your question, or the one you frequent most often. Thanks!

[Spencer]

Dan, the reviews are great, particularly in their detail. I've really learned a lot about heat exchangers, portafilters, etc. Perhaps too much. Each machine has features we want, as well as concerns. I've gotten to see all three in the flesh at various shops in the bay area, but not working. It's still hard to make up my mind. If you have time and don't mind a couple of questions I'd appreciate any further advice.

The Elektra and Bricolleta aren't insulated and you note the Elektra gets really hot. The wood cabinet is 22 inches off the counter. The machine won't be on for long periods except perhaps weekends or the odd day I work from home. Would you be concerned that there is enough heat to warp or damage a wood cabinet?

The Bricolleta is the only machine without a pump pressure gauge. Would getting a portafilter gauge be an adequate alternative to establish a general working pressure and for occasional monitoring? I really like good coffee, but I have too many hobbies as is, and I don't envision a weekly overhaul of the equipment.

The kitchen, while not huge is slightly commercial in that we have a 6 burner stove and as well as a wall oven, so the size of the A3 doesn't automatically exclude it. It's a great piece of equipment, but is the additional $1,000 aesthetics and a much larger boiler, or is it made that much better and much more likely to rival the 20+ year run of our La Pavoni?

Do you think it feasible to fit the Andreja to drain automatically? At the office there is an old La Spaziale and I'm really getting to appreciate the ease at temperature surfing without having to use extra cups, etc.

Thanks for your help.

[HB]

Hey Spencer, and it's great to hear that you had the chance to at least see this machines personally. A good part of the reason this site exists is to help consumers make an expensive and criteria-laden decision with confidence. As an aside, one of the challenges as a reviewer is to address the differing detail expectations of HB's membership (i.e., some want gobs and gobs of hardcore data, some want the report to "net it out" for them). Sorry if the recommended reading list I offered earlier was a bit daunting...

Now with that little preamble out of the way, on to your questions:

• Enough heat to warp or damage a wood cabinet? I'm not a kitchen cabinet maker, but presumably quality ones can tolerate the normal ambient heat and moisture from cooking. But the A3 puts out a lot more heat than your average countertop appliance, so the potential for damage is real. Judging from other insulated machines I've evaluated (e.g., Andreja Premium, Cimbali Junior) versus ones that aren't (Isomac Rituale, Giotto Premium, A3), adding a little insulation makes a considerable difference. Ignoring the question of heat affecting the cabinetry for a moment, my concerns are (a) the added burden on the air conditioning in the summer and (b) the temperature imbalance it creates between the kitchen and the rest of the first floor served by the same HVAC system.
  
• Is a portafilter gauge adequate for a machine sans brew gauge? In a word, yes. I enumerated the advantages of a brew gauge in the Andreja Premium review (link). It's a nice-to-have feature, but not a deal breaker. If it really bothers you post-purchase, it's not hard to add one.
  
• Is the A3 made that much better? I've pored over the internals of the Cimbali Junior and the Elektra A3. In terms of construction, they are unquestionably on another level well above the others you mention. In a home environment, paying for such attentions is not justifiable purely in economic terms. It depends on how much you value top-notch commercial-grade construction versus very good, serviceable materials and workmanship. Some will buy a Rolex and argue it's a great investment. I don't own a watch costing more than a hundred bucks. At this pricepoint, a lot of the allure is personal, not economical. The A3's looks and the "cafe experience" it affords quite honestly blow away anything I've ever tried. Is that worth an extra $1000?
  
• Add drain to Andreja? If you're handy, sure. I added a drain attachment to my own machine (La Valentina, below). There isn't however an "out of the box" conversion kit.

Drainline fitting meets flush against hole drilled in bottom of driptray, seals with rubber washer
(espresso machine is bolted to countertop)

A couple closing thoughts. Keep in mind the A3 isn't a home machine that could be pressed into service in a commercial environment; it's a fully commercial machine, period. The steaming power is only very slightly below the La Marzocco three groups that I've tried at Counter Culture Coffee and Pheasant Creek Cafe. The Elektra could serve non-stop espressos and cappuccinos for a small wedding reception. Is that sort of capacity overkill for your kitchen? Absolutely.

PS: I retitled this thread to make it easier to discern the topic.

[Spencer]

Dan

Thanks for the additional information. We decided to go with the Bricoletta, and after all the threads on the importance of grinders we decided to go with the Cimbali. For anyone considering the Bricoletta, Chris' Coffee has substitute steam and water wands that have a broader range of motion than the stock fittings.

Regards,
Spencer

[skyryders90]

Dan

Thanks for the additional information. We decided to go with the Bricoletta, and after all the threads on the importance of grinders we decided to go with the Cimbali. For anyone considering the Bricoletta, Chris' Coffee has substitute steam and water wands that have a broader range of motion than the stock fittings.

Can you tell me more about these broader range fittings? I'm currently working on a choice between similar machines, and right now the Bricoletta is at the top of my list, though I like the steam wands and knobs of the Andreja better.

Also, does anyone know how hard it would be to add a brew pressure gauge to a machine like the Bricoletta?

[HB]

Chris commented on the Bricoletta's "improved" steam arms in the Bench forum:

And, per my promise, some shots of the new, improved steam wand. I think this is a Cimbali set-up (which most people consider to be one of the best out there).

...which reminds me that the review needs to be updated. Andreja's "no burn" steam arms are nice, especially since milk doesn't bake on. The drawback is that the threading is incompatible with many popular steam tips (e.g., Gold Pro 2, EPNW stainless steel angled two-hole steam tip, Chris' Coffee "new" steam tip, etc.).

Adding a brew pressure gauge isn't difficult. The thread Testing Brew Pressure covers some options for you to consider. The toughest decision is whether to cut the front casing for a permanent install or go the quick-and-easy route of an external gauge.

[skyryders90]

Chris commented on the Bricoletta's "improved" steam arms in the Bench forum:

I wasn't clear as to whether the new wands the original poster was referring to were the same that Chris discussed, or even newer ones.

[HB]

They appear to be the same steam arms judging from the Bricoletta photos on Chris' Coffee and the Bench snapshots I posted earlier. Note that Malachi swapped the stock steam tip (ridged two hole) for the Gold Pro 2 (see this thread for more info).

[Spencer]

My understanding is that the wands are full range as with the Andreja or Elektra. We ordered the Bricoletta from Chris' Coffee, and it should be here Thursday fitted with the new wands. Once it arrives I can let you know exactly.

We also ordered a PF with a pressure gauge. While it would be nice to have one built in, from the comments in the other threads it seems that it isn't mandatory and the PF gauge was a cheap solution and preferable to drilling holes in the housing.

[Spencer]

Also, does anyone know how hard it would be to add a brew pressure gauge to a machine like the Bricoletta?

I don't know if this is possible (it should be), but one other thought is to replace the Bricoletta gauge with a dual gauge such as that on the Elektra A3. The issues would be whether or not the plumbing is possible within the layout of the Bricoletta and whether or not the dual gauge is the same size as the current opening on the Bricoletta.