Can 10 day old beans, stored in a paper bag with clips, produce something drinkable?

[Elbasso]

I recently moved from Denmark to Holland. Denmark is a paradise for espresso lovers but Holland......... well, it isn't. My main problem here is that roasters do not put a roasting date on their bags. Furthermore, the bags are those roll-up paper ones with to fold able thingies on the sides. I keep trying to find out when a certain blend was roasted but the standard answer is: 'it was all roasted this week'. The last batch I got was definitively older than one week. The grinds looked very dry and pours went blond after just 15 seconds, no matter what adjustments I made. No matter what I did, I wasn't able to pull a decent shot of espresso. All of them were sour or bitter or both. My question is: 'is it possible to make a good espresso out of 10 day or older beans that have been stored in one of those paper bags?'.

According to this site you have lost everything good after ten days and it is replaced by something nasty.

[JohnB.]

Depends on the beans I guess but Kyle from Intelligentsia tells me their B/C & Kid-O doesn't hit its peak until day 10. He suggests leaving the coffee to age in the bag until at least day 8, preferably day 10 as thats how they do it at their cafes. I'll be trying this with the shipment that is due here tomorrow as getting tasty shots out of either in the first week is near impossible. After 7-8 days past roast the flavor improves noticeably.

[Elbasso]

That sounds very believable if we're talking about a valve bag. Same thing goes for the coffee from The Coffee Collective in Copenhagen. They say it has it's prime after no less than 12 days. They do however put a lot of effort in the packing process and use valve bags. But my question was about those silly paper bags with clips. Like the one below:



Leaving the beans in one of these seems to have the same effect as leaving the beans in the hopper

[Randy G.]

Why not ask them what day they roast and try to be there to get fresh and see if it makes a difference. You could roast your own as well.

[cafeIKE]

That bag looks like plastic foil.

I tried a local roaster here who ships no valve / internally plasticized paper bags with the clips.
His roast is great on days 10 to 14.

All depends on the coffee. Just grind it and see what happens.

[Elbasso]

I guess I should have asked a different question. It's not so much the bag I am interested in but more the espresso made from "old" beans.

My experience with most coffees is that it's nigh impossible to get a proper shot once most oils have evaporated. The water runs way too fast through the puck. Grinding finer just leaves me with a over-concentrated 20ml shot before the shot instantly goes blond. Up dosing gives more volume but the shots are just as over-concentrated. Is anyone able to still produce something drinkable from beans that have had the opportunity to go "stale"?

[JohnB.]

If my coffee went stale I'd dump it in the compost bucket & move on. I freeze all my excess coffee so staling isn't an issue.

[babola]

Paper bag with clips or plastic with one-way valve, you should be fine with both for about two weeks regardless, after that time you'd be pushing it with the beans stored in paper bag. The one-way valve provides a lot more resistance to escaping CO2 than clips, hence the beans stored in former should last you at least a week longer.

Also, as others have said, it depends on the type of beans and roasting process as well. The best way to find out is to experiment...

[da gino]

Depends on the beans I guess but Kyle from Intelligentsia tells me their B/C & Kid-O doesn't hit its peak until day 10. He suggests leaving the coffee to age in the bag until at least day 8, preferably day 10 as thats how they do it at their cafes. I'll be trying this with the shipment that is due here tomorrow as getting tasty shots out of either in the first week is near impossible. After 7-8 days past roast the flavor improves noticeably.

I've noticed this with BC. The first time I bought it I tried changing my technique dramatically and after about a week I was finally figuring it out and getting great shots. What I didn't realize was that it was the coffee getting better and not me. The second time the new technique didn't work at first and after a week I could get great shots out of it using my original technique so I finally caught on!

[HB]

My experience with most coffees is that it's nigh impossible to get a proper shot once most oils have evaporated. The water runs way too fast through the puck. Grinding finer just leaves me with a over-concentrated 20ml shot before the shot instantly goes blond. Up dosing gives more volume but the shots are just as over-concentrated.

With Counter Culture Coffee just down the street from my office and online roasters only a click away, I don't suffer from stale coffee unless work or family responsibilities interfere with my coffee acquisitions. That said, occasionally one of my thoughtful friends, knowing that I like espresso, brings me coffee from some faraway land. It's invariably some obscure supermarket import with a "best by" date six months away. My experience with said coffees mirrors yours.

[da gino]

With Counter Culture Coffee just down the street from my office and online roasters only a click away, I don't suffer from stale coffee unless work or family responsibilities interfere with my coffee acquisitions. That said, occasionally one of my thoughtful friends, knowing that I like espresso, brings me coffee from some faraway land. It's invariably some obscure supermarket import with a "best by" date six months away. My experience with said coffees mirrors yours.

At risk of taking the thread a little away from its original topic (but perhaps not too far) when does CCC say their coffee peaks? I've always felt old coffee produced bad coffee no matter how good it had once been, but I only recently realized that some good coffees weren't at their peak a day or two after they were roasted.

[HB]

When a coffee peaks is a matter of opinion and debate (see Why coffee needs to "rest" before making espresso). Counter Culture's recommendations change from time-to-time. While years ago they regularly recommended four days of rest, I believe their coffees peak later nowadays, somewhere between 6 and 9 days. When in doubt, ask them (via their general Contact Us page or e-mailing Nathan).

[vanboom]

0-6 days is the best in my experience. I roast my own, and typically observe the following profile:

day 0: lighter body, less complexity, less sweetness
day 1: sweeter, more complex, more body
day 2: great balance, body, sweetness, complexity
day 3: similar to day 2
day 4: less body, complexity still there, sweetness trading off to more bitter/smoky
day 5: cardboard box/stale notes starting to creep in, but drinkable
day 6: cardboard box/stale starting to become more prominent and bothersome, roast damit, roast!
day 7: I cannot drink this - throw it out and roast again!

I have read of other store bought blends coming into their stride around day 7-10. I am not sure what would prolong the "sweet spot" to beyond 10 days, maybe robusta requires more days to smooth out? I roast mainly Brazils, Ethiopians, Guatemalans, Kenyans, Sumatras.

Based on my experience, I cannot imagine a roast tasking better at 10 days than it does at 2-4 days. Of course, "drinkable" is subjective; the majority of folks drink Foldgers from the work-pot all day.

best,
Don