Buyer's Guide to the Vibiemme Domobar Super - Page 2

[cannonfodder]

Another pointer when it comes to steaming on the Super. While you want to wait until the heater has turned off before pulling a shot, when steaming start at the top of the cycle but just before the heater turns off. I find I get higher pressure steam and the boiler holds slightly higher pressure versus starting steaming after the heater turns off.

A few steam times, time needed to heat water from 40F to 160F boiler at 1.1bar;

8oz----28 seconds

10oz ---33 seconds

12oz---45 seconds

All times are an average based on 3 sessions each using a Fluke 54II and type K thermocouple.

[cafeIKE]

The wand has a small rubber grip point for moving while hot. Just don't miss, or you will be reminded when you sizzle a couple fingers.

The grip shifts around as you move the wand.
Stop it shifting with a drop of cyanoacrylate { Super / Krazy Glue } under each end when the wand is cool

[cannonfodder]

I was getting some rattling from my Domobar Super. The cup warmer was vibrating a little. I only have one cup and the second portafilter sitting on top of the warmer so there was not much holding it down. So I broke out the handyman's second best friend, electrical tape. I put a strip of black PVC electrical tape down the front and back of the cup warmer. That dampened the vibration from the vibratory pump and quieted it down nicely



Another little tip that is not in the manual, the drip tray cover does have a front and back. The back has a small notch cut in it. It will fit on the machine either way, but it fits better when it is on the correct way.

[cannonfodder]

When doing a review, or purchasing a new machine, I like to do a little history research on the company. Try as I may, I just could not find much information on the origin of the company and its history. All I could find were little snippets and tidbits of information. So one email led to another which turned into half a dozen, next thing I knew I have a history lesson from the president of VBM in my inbox thanks to Stefano Cremonesi. This is reprinted just as it was received with the permission of Cristiano Osnato, president and owner of VBM...

Our Heritage: The origin of Vibiemme is intimately connected to FAEMA: the founder of both companies being one Mr.Carlo Ernesto Valente.

Carlo Valente opened a laboratory in Milan in 1945 to produce espresso coffee machines called FAEMA. The 50's saw FAEMA growing constantly and contributing significantly to developing espresso machine technology.

The turning point came in 1961 when the company introduced to the Italian market the E61 model. The principle of the E61 head (water charge-infusion-discharge) is still used today on the vast majority of machines. It user friendly with excellent heat characteristics resulting in superb quality coffee.

It would be fair to say that right up until the mid 70's FAEMA was considered by all to make the very best machines, producing the very best quality espresso. By this time FAEMA had became very diversified and found itself in financial difficulty. Many strikes, a common occurrence in Italy at this time, affected production, and in 1976 FAEMA SPA was declared insolvent. Earnsto was forced to hand the company over to the state.

Mr. Valente then created a new company from scratch: Vibiemme, pronounced like the letters v.b.m ( the V stands for Valente , the B for Biancolini, and the M for Meroni.) These three men had been FAEMA's top management prior to state ownership. Italy's most respected espresso machine experts were concentrated into a small company focused solely on espresso machines.

Mr. Valente passed away in 1985 and ownership passed over to his son Fabio and to the Nuova Faema company. In the intervening years Vibiemme pioneered many new innovations and was highly respected in the Italian market.



Mr Valente on the right with the President of Italy

Innovations

1. The first electronic machine (timer).

2. The first patent infusion system on the automatic group (1978).

3. Invented and patented the fresh water system for tea and long blacks using a third heat exchanger so that water is 3-4 degrees C less than the boiled water.

4. The first company to put the motor and pump inside the machine.

5. The Domobar, developed in 1983 (Domus for home, Bar for cafe) is the first machine for the home market with commercial performance and is still the leader in the field.


Vibiemme is currently run by Christiano Orsanto, the son of Pietro Orsanto who had become a major shareholder during the late 80's and early 90's. Pietro had kept the focus of the company on quality and innovation. Christiano is also a firm believer in these features.

[bdbayer]

The steam tip is larger than most and will NOT fit other wand tips.

On the day the above was reported my new Expobar Single Hole Tip from WLL arrived, I was bummed to read that because I really thought I could do a better job with a single hole tip. I decided to try it anyway and found that it did fit using the white washer provided with the old tip.



Results are better but still not to cannonfodders level yet.

Barry B

[cannonfodder]

History of the Domobar
DOMOBAR SUPER SHORT STORY

Both models Domobar and Domobar Super were born between the end of the 70s and first of the 80s, while testing the E61 group on a machine conceived for domestic use only.

This first attempt gave its results approx. at the end of the 80's when the sales of the Domobar model began to increase; anyway the Domobar Super model is at that moment still "unlucky", considered too much binding for family use.

At the beginning of the 90's other companies try the same path (such as Isomac and ECM); they also understand that outside appearance is important (even more important) than technical features and in this period Vibiemme (focused on the sale of commercial machines) leaves the way to the above mentioned companies and to other new brands.

Anyway, between the year 2000 - 2001 the market conditions change, the end-user becomes more informed and demanding (thanks also to the internet forums) and a new class of consumer demands more performing machines.

Thanks to some of our importers we made a re-styling of the Domobar Super model taking care of raw materials quality and renewing the product both from the technical and from the aesthetical point of view, so obtaining a performing, reliable and aesthetically new machine.

1) Main changes in safety terms:

- 2-positions switch (easy and intuitive)
- new safety valves
- 3rd tension light
- re-design of the by pass: trebled in its sizes and with new gaskets
- new wiring following UL laws
- safety rele in the boiler

2)aesthetical / technical changes:
- use of the double manometer
- use of steel feet
- introducing of the semiautomatic and electronic versions
- new refinishing on the drip tray and cups warmer
- new handles on the cups warmer
- 4 liters tank

3)ALREADY EXISTING TECHNICAL FEATURES :
- 1800 watts element or 1600 (american market)
- 2,7 litres boiler
- steam / water taps section doubled in comparison to ECM and Isomac brands
- Vibiemme Group produced on our own project and die (other brands' groups are standard)

This allowed us to have a really superior product from the technical side and really reliable: the machines coming back under guarantee are less than 3%

[stefano65]

Just to clarify couple of things
the sticker on the domobar pictured it has a misprint on the amperage, should read 14,5 not 17,5 ( which is for the 220v version) how ever following the electric country codes you will still need a 20amp receptacle
also about the cup warming tray vibrating normally you can take care of that also loosening the side screws of the panels and re-screw them pushing in on the casing

[bdbayer]

you will still need a 20amp receptacle

Mine is on a standard 15 amp circuit. Is this why the pressure drops when the heater kicks on. I have been considering wiring a 20 amp dedicated circuit to see if it would help that small issue.

Barry B

[cannonfodder]

Mine is on a standard 15 amp circuit. Is this why the pressure drops when the heater kicks on. I have been considering wiring a 20 amp dedicated circuit to see if it would help that small issue.

Barry B

The pressure drop when the heating element engages is normal for vibratory pump home machines. That is a side effect of being designed for 220 and then retrofitted to 110v. Every vibe machine I have used does the same thing and it should be considered normal. There is nothing wrong with the machine. At 15 amps you are pushing the limit of the circuit and it could be exaggerating the effect. I have a couple of dedicated 20 amp circuits on my test bench and have the same issue. The fix is usually heavier gauge wiring. A beefier power cord may reduce or eliminate the issue. Stay tuned, lots of things in the works right now.

I wait until the heater has hit the end of the cycle, or is almost at the end before I start my shot. I can usually get through the shot before the heater kicks on.

[jesawdy]

I wait until he heater has hit the end of the cycle, or is almost at the end before I start my shot. I can usually get through the shot before the heater kicks on.

For you Domobar Super owners/users.... to avoid the pressure drop if the heating element kicks in while pulling a shot, could you not just flick the switch over to the (I) - Fill position, and then pull the shot? I know it's an extra step, but it ought to work, and it's cheap and easy .

[jggall01]

Mine is on a standard 15 amp circuit. Is this why the pressure drops when the heater kicks on. I have been considering wiring a 20 amp dedicated circuit to see if it would help that small issue.

You probably already realize that it doesn't really matter what size the breaker is, 15A or 20A. Length of the wire run to/from the breaker box and gauge of wire are what matter. Granted, a 15A circuit could be wired with 14AWG (too small for this situation) and still meet many codes while a 20A would require 12AWG. To minimize the pulsing effect you want big, short wires, with robust connections, regardless of the breaker size.

Jim (pointing out the obvious?)

[bdbayer]

I am just thinking about what is not so obvious. A 15 amp circuit in my old house built in 1917, kitchen remod and electrical upgrade in 2000, still probably wouldn't use 12awg direct to the breaker, regardless of rating. I could do that in a dedicated line to the box.

Old Mr. Ohm (E=IxR) would tell me that there is a voltage drop if the thing can't get enough current due to the higher resistance of thinner wires. I do drop below 8 bars though while I am 9.5 to 10 while brewing. Maybe others can say if this is normal or if I should consider the project.

[jggall01]

When I pulled the JennAire out of the island, I suddenly had a 30A circuit with nothing on it. Looks like it's supplied by 10AWG or 8AWG wire. So I added a 20A GFI receptacle that does a very nice job with high wattage appliances. (I probably should have re-fused the circuit to match the receptacle).

So, if you would like to send me your VBM for some testing....

Jim

[cafeIKE]

The Vibiemme here draws 11.6A @116v. The voltage drops from 120 no load to 116 load.

The socket is a standard 15A with 12ga wiring installed at the last kitchen remodel.

[Teme]

The Vibiemme Domobar Super has dedicated steam wand and water dispenser. Both are outfitted with a ball joint which gives you a large range of motion. The wands are fitted into a valve assembly that angles out from the front of the machine at about a 60 degree angle. While giving you two axes of movement, there is a limitation. The wands will make contact with the valve assembly when moving them out to the sides of the machine. This is a relatively minor issue given the range of motion.

How do you like the feel of the knobs? Another minor issue, I know, but I think the barista-machine interface / tactility are important. For me the action on the Vibiemme is mushy and somewhat imprecise compared to e.g. the Andreja, Giotto or even a Valentina.

I also found that the heating element seemed a bit underpowered for the large boiler size. For example I saw fairly long recovery times from steaming compared to other similar machines (but on the other hand there is plenty of power).

Br,
Teme

[erics]

I do drop below 8 bars though while I am 9.5 to 10 while brewing. Maybe others can say if this is normal or if I should consider the project.

What CF said is, for sure, correct, i.e. you and everybody else will have a slight reduction in brew pressure when the heating element kicks in during the course of a shot. BUT YOUR REDUCTION of anywhere from 1.5 bar to 2.0 bar IS NOT RIGHT. If your 2000 kitchen remodel was to code , you should have two separate 20 amp small appliance circuits going into the kitchen.

Jeff's great recommendation to simply turn the power switch to the "pump only" position when pulling a shot would certainly eliminate any brew pressure fluctuation due to voltage drop. That type of switch is something ALL of our espresso machines should have. It is simply a wise decision on V's part to include it on their machines.

You might also consider hauling the machine down to the laundry area and plug it in to the washing machine receptacle - that should propably be on its own dedicated circuit and may be 12 gage wiring reasonably close to the main panel. I would defer to another Vibiemme owner but the MAXIMUM pressure drop I would expect is 0.5 bar.

[cannonfodder]

The Vibiemme here draws 11.6A @116v. The voltage drops from 120 no load to 116 load.

The socket is a standard 15A with 12ga wiring installed at the last kitchen remodel.

I will see if I can get my hands on an ammeter from work. My Fluke tops out at 10A. If I can, I will heat the machine, turn it off, purge a couple cups of water and let it cool down. That way when I power it up with the meter attached, the fill solenoid will open, the pump will run and the heating element will engage. That should give me a maximum draw.

Using the old volts X watts=amps and using the stated 110v at 1600w heating element, I get 14.54 amps from just the heating element, plust the pump and other electrical tidbits.

[bdbayer]

Well... I just went in the old basement with a flashlight and found that my contractor/good friend (who has since moved away) must have never got an inspection when he remodeled my kitchen. I have no 20 amp circuits, just 15A GFCI's with 14awg going into old J boxes that then go back to the breaker box with old wire. Other things are tapped off of those boxes, too.

Let's not use any of my experience with this machine as a standard or for your expected results.

Back to your testing of the machine Cannonfodder. I'm done.

Barry B

BTW, I still love this machine, imagine how much I would if I had proper power!

[cafeIKE]

How do you like the feel of the knobs? Another minor issue, I know, but I think the barista-machine interface / tactility are important. For me the action on the Vibiemme is mushy and somewhat imprecise compared to e.g. the Andreja, Giotto or even a Valentina.

If the knobs are not used frequently, I've found they can be 'sluggish' for a bit. I'm guessing the stop adheres to the opening. I discovered this after a lengthy overseas trip when the machine remained off for several weeks.

The fix :
Draw an ounce or so of hot water to warm the missus latte cups once a week and the control remains precise and crisp.
Weekly use of the steam wand keeps it in fine fettle as well.

I will see if I can get my hands on an ammeter from work. My Fluke tops out at 10A. If I can, I will heat the machine, turn it off, purge a couple cups of water and let it cool down. That way when I power it up with the meter attached, the fill solenoid will open, the pump will run and the heating element will engage. That should give me a maximum draw.

Using the old volts X watts=amps and using the stated 110v at 1600w heating element, I get 14.54 amps from just the heating element, plust the pump and other electrical tidbits.

err, that's watts / volts = amps , more or less.

Since you probably have the cover off more than I, I'm curious what is the voltage applied to the element?

BTW, the 11.6A / 116V is heater on 100% and PID only, no pump. The 116V is measured at the plug end of the current splitter, not the wall.

[cannonfodder]

How do you like the feel of the knobs? Another minor issue, I know, but I think the barista-machine interface / tactility are important. For me the action on the Vibiemme is mushy and somewhat imprecise compared to e.g. the Andreja, Giotto or even a Valentina.

I also found that the heating element seemed a bit underpowered for the large boiler size. For example I saw fairly long recovery times from steaming compared to other similar machines (but on the other hand there is plenty of power).

Br,
Teme

The recovery time does not appear to be any longer than your average machine and only marginally slower than the Elektra A3. With the boiler set at 1.1 bar and the machine fully heated I ran a recovery test. I purged the steam wand for 5 seconds and allowed the machine to recover until the heater turned off. I steamed 6oz of cold water to a temperature of 150F, turned off the steam and timed how long it took for the boiler to recover. 15 seconds, I don't think that is too bad for a 110V espresso machine. The boiler dropped to .75 bar during the steaming session. I ran the test 3 times and the times and pressures were spot on every time.

My steam knobs are stiff when cold, but loosen up once the machine heats. The controls are a little stiff but I don't think I would use the term mushy. The machine is brand new so the seals are still stiff. It takes a little time for those to break in. I find that I do need to give the knob a full 360 turn when I open it up. If I give it a partial twist the steam will start, but as the valve heats the seals expand and the steam will slow down. With the full turn it is not an issue.