Buyer's Guide to the Elektra Semiautomatica - Page 5

[AndyS]

8/11/06
... I just pulled two godshot+ singles from my houseblend...

I don't care if the Semi isn't operating at proper espresso machine parameters, I don't even care if it's voodoo; I'm going to be very southern about this and not fix what ain't even close to broke. The parts will have to wait until whatever charm is on this machine wears off.

8/15/06
Needle valve and closed circuit OPV, all hooked up, not leaking, working as advertised, ready for fine tuning and tasting.

Wow, that has to be the shortest honeymoon on record; someone please check the archives of the National Enquirer!

[niad]

I got my Elektra SXC today. Wow, it's bigger than you think when you have only looked at pictures. I filled it up and started it, after it was ready i just pulled a shot with the same grind as i use with my Ellimatic, which by the way want's quite fine setting. I tamped as usual and got this shot. It tasted very good, sweet and robust is what i want to say about the taste. I use Mauro de Luxe. I tried finer and coarser grind after that and came back to about the same setting for the grinder as i had when i started I choked it with just a bit finer grind than i started with but maybe i tamped to hard then. Anyway, first day, extremely good coffee and EXTREMELY easy to make microfoam. Everything good said about the steam on this machine seems to be true. I look forward to my journey with my new companion.

[another_jim]

Hi Niklas,

please keep posting on how it's going for you.


I buttoned up mine with the OPV and needle valve inside. It's a clumsy, shoehorn fit with metal parts in contact, separated only by bits of an old tshirt. Unfortunately, a proper job would require a changed layout of the parts and welding in some brackets. The pump noise is the same for unobstructed flow, but the recycling of the water from OPV to pump intake adds substantially to the noise when making shots.



I'll spend the next few days repeating the taste tests against the Tea, and check whether there's a real improvement or not. If not, the hardware is coming back out! The shots look a lot prettier; and they now accord to espresso theory; but that isn't enough to make it worthwhile.

[jasonmolinari]

Jim, what you've found regarding pressure...does that mean the Tea would make a good single out of the box, set at about 11bar?

[another_jim]

Jim, what you've found regarding pressure...does that mean the Tea would make a good single out of the box, set at about 11bar?

Most people, myself included, found the 11 bar singles on the Tea rather poor, and the 13 bar ones on the Silvia appalling. I don't know why the Semi works better at these high pressures, but it does. I had it at 9 bar for a day, and all the shots were thin and weak.

There is a big difference between a 9 bar single on the Tea and one at the same pressure on the Elektra; the Elektra sucks at 9 bar. When the pressure is set higher on the Elektra, the shots become comparable, with the Elektra usually having the slight edge. It could be that the group was tweaked to operate with a non-pressure regulated vibe pump. In any case, my regulating project ended up with only a partial downward adjustment to the pressure, from 14 bar to 11 bar, and a fairly large one to the flow, from 80 to 50mL water debit, taking the dwell time from 2 to 4.5 seconds. I don't know for sure if these settings are optimal; if anything, they may be too much a bow to my past thinking on proper pressure and dwell times. Also I don't expect the improvements in this tasting period to be all that major either.

The only thing I'm certain about at this point is that the optimum pressure settings vary by machine; and one should taste for oneself.

The potential universal rule I'd like to check is whether the best settings for pressure and dwell time are those that allow extractions with the finest grind. A rule like this would make setting up a machine much simpler than needing to do taste tests. Unfortunately, this is a long term project, and not anything I'll be able to answer soon.

[another_jim]

OK, this is the last information post I'm putting on this thread; since my "first look" is done.

I'm leaving the pressure mods in -- the singles have maintained their high level; and the doubles have improved in taste and extraction. A curious fact is that using identical baskets and dose with the Tea, I get slightly longer extractions for the same stop color.

However, the improvement is small for the doubles and negligible for the singles; so I wouldn't recommend it for anyone who is not an inveterate machine hacker:
-- The machine now extends the motorcycle metaphor to its sound. It's not obnoxiously loud, but has a distinctly two-stroke-ish tat-tat-tat to it, introduced by the frequency harmonic added in the feedback of the OPV.
-- As you can see on the picture, using off the shelf parts and hose makes for a very cramped installation, and quite likely, added maintenance. I would advise people who want to this to source smaller parts and have the skills to cut pipe, rather than use hose, for the fittings, so the parts can be fitted into the space properly. However, despite the 11 bar, there have been no leaks at all. Loktite 565, an NSF approved teflon thread sealant, works like a charm (and the fittings can be easily reopened). Use this instead of teflon tape, which is hopeless for this.

Final thoughts:
-- The Elektra is a very capable home HX machine; it makes very good shots and steams wonderfully.
-- I think Mark was seduced by its looks and didn't know much about using E61s when he did his test, so the substantially better shots he got from the Elektra are an artifact. Having used just about every machine on the market by now, I'm beginning to think there are largish differences in machines when it comes to consistency, ease of use for beginners, and workability for experts; but I no longer think that there are huge quality differences between machines competently operated. Head to head comparisons between any of the machines that find favor with us have always had roughly even results.
-- I have a suspicion that if there is a systematic difference between machines, it will lie in dwell times and water paths. I keep getting the feeling that short dwell machines tend towards lighter shots with more clarity, whereas the really long dwell ones like the E61s tend towards bigger body and somewhat muddier flavors. However, the difference is so small it may be in my imagination only.
-- I find the Elektra a lot of fun to use. Whether this is because it's sleek and gorgeous, or just new, I don't know. Ask me in 6 months.

I'll give myself two to three months on the machine, then work up this material and my everyday user experience into a more formal article.

I hope you all enjoyed the ride.

[Marshall]

Thanks, Jim. Yes, I "enjoyed the ride."

[miKe mcKoffee]

Thanks, Jim. Yes, I "enjoyed the ride."

Indeed, thanks Jim for taking the time giving us such a great first look on a real beauty of a machine.

[Abe Carmeli]

On the Elektra's pressure; the portafilter gauge reads 14 to 16 bar at no flow. However, the ristretto singles continue to be soft and sweet, which according to my previous posts is impossible.

No problem! The great French biologist, Buffon, who defended the fixity of species in the 1830s, was puttering in his garden when he noticed a strange bug, which to his expert eye, instantly proved that species do evolve. So he stepped on it. I'll be installing a closed circuit OPV and stepping on the inexplicably tasty high pressure singles from the Elektra.

, This is becoming a Simpsons episode, where Jim is a cross between Ned Flanders who torched Homer's air-tight mathematical proof that God does not exist; and Professor Frink who fabricated a teleporter gone amok which crossed Bart with a mosquito - to produce a flying buzzing Bart. "Eat my shorts" gets a whole new meaning here. I could think of a few other things that need crushing pronto, but I digress. Now, what was my question? Oh yeah, Jim, those heavenly singles, do they work across the board or just on particular type of coffees, say high growth acidic.

[niad]

Thanks Jim for all the input on this machine. Since i got mine and pulled an at least as good shot as any on my old Nuova Simonelli after starting it for the first time i have been totally satisfied with it. I have made about 50 cups since last thursday and none of them has gone bad. Even some that has been a bit overextracted because of fresh beans and to fine grind has tasted good to me and ALL have had fine crema whatever grind i have given it. It really seems to be very forgiving, much more so than my Ellimatic at least. We had guests yesterday and the machine was the center of attention as soon as they came in the kitchen. They wanted to be served coffee right away before dinner and the cappuccinos i served at the dessert was formidable because of the extreme ease to make microfoam, i even had a go with latte art and that has never even been close before ever with the Ellimatic. I have definitely stepped up in both quality and pleasure in my coffee experience with this machine. The Ellimatic will now be put in the summerhouse.

[miKe mcKoffee]

No no NO, just keep telling myself
The Elektra Microcasa Semiautomatica is ugly and pulls terrible shots.
The Elektra Microcasa Semiautomatica is ugly and pulls terrible shots.
The Elektra Microcasa Semiautomatica is ugly and pulls terrible shots.
The Elektra Microcasa Semiautomatica is ugly and pulls terrible shots.
The Elektra Microcasa Semiautomatica is ugly and pulls terrible shots.
The Elektra Microcasa Semiautomatica is ugly and pulls terrible shots.
The Elektra Microcasa Semiautomatica is ugly and pulls terrible shots.
The Elektra Microcasa Semiautomatica is ugly and pulls terrible shots...

[bobdc]

Thanks to the reviews from Jim, Niklas in Sweden and the others, I am in another quandry. I have been saving for the delightful couple, Anita and Mazzer Mini. Now, as I near my $$-goal, Elektra comes on the scene and I am torn between Anita and Elektra. I am still saving the pennies and hope some of you will share your thoughts on the quandry. What a nice one to have, huh? I will be talking to Chris and/or Mary too. A note; these will be my first Reallly Nice grinder and espresso machine and I am not mechanical so won't be doing any tinkering on my own which isn't necessary.
The reviews and comments are appreciated.

[another_jim]

Ah, Jim, those heavenly singles, do they work across the board or just on particular type of coffees, say high growth acidic.

The comparison testing spurred me to improve my singles technique on the Tea as well, so I think I can offer some all round thoughts.

Singles as a whole are better for espresso tasting than doubles; they are mellower, allowing for more tasting and an easier discernment of flavors. This is partly due to taking smaller sips, but it's also due to basket edge effects. In a single, the conical or two step shape of the basket puts a lot of more coffee around the edge compared to a double basket with a simple cylinder shape. I'm guessing the edge of a single is relatively underextracted compared to a double, and that this produces the milder flavor.

The machine does amplify flavor differences like all espresso machines, but without distorting them as much as most machines; it's similar to the Peppina in this regard. I have a bunch of roasts in right now for cupping; among similar coffees, the small quality differences in the cup become very apparent when making shots; the machine rewards coffees with powerful aromas and tastes; and punishes those with weak ones. For coffees designed for espresso, it is also fairly merciless -- the godshot+ shots from my blend on Wednesday lost noticeably in oomph each subsequent day as the roast faded. I'd never noticed this as vividly on the Tea.

However, it's actually fairly kind on some coffees I thought would suffer. Jason's Verona blend has Monsooned Malabar and Kapi, two constituents I usually find overpowering when I'm pulling this style blend on the Tea. On the Elektra, the blend comes out understated and elegant, a real treat when one is steeling oneself for Dolce or Malabar Gold style assertiveness. However, a lot of this may have to do with the care Jason takes on his roasts.

As to "Fly-Bart," the OPVed Elektra is buzzing more loudly. Also, I need to check if most of the improvement on the doubles is from the needle valve alone. So, over the coming weeks, I'll tinker a bit with vibration damping, and using the needle valve on its own. If vibration damping works, I'll post that to a new thread, since there's quite a few vibe owners looking for fixes in this area. Otherwise the results will be in the long term follow up.

[another_jim]

No no NO, just keep telling myself
The Elektra Microcasa Semiautomatica is ugly and pulls terrible shots.
...
The Elektra Microcasa Semiautomatica is ugly and pulls terrible shots...

Less body than the Vetrano

[another_jim]

:P Thanks to the reviews from Jim, Niklas in Sweden and the others, I am in another quandry. I have been saving for the delightful couple, Anita and Mazzer Mini. Now, as I near my $$-goal, Elektra comes on the scene and I am torn between Anita and Elektra. I am still saving the pennies and hope some of you will share your thoughts on the quandry. What a nice one to have, huh? I will be talking to Chris and/or Mary too. A note; these will be my first Reallly Nice grinder and espresso machine and I am not mechanical so won't be doing any tinkering on my own which isn't necessary.
The reviews and comments are appreciated.

There are no bad machines in this price range, so you're likely to be happy with anything you get.

As a now verteran owner of ridiculously overpriced espresso gear, I can offer a few thoughts.

1. The other machine is always greener. Ignore that, since it never goes away, and pay very close attention to your priorities and how they match up with what's out there
2. The few hundred dollars in price differences will be meaningless after a few months of ownership. Again, ignore that and focus on your priorities.
3. Alas, priorities change with experience, so "the last machine I'll ever buy" is mostly a myth. However, the good news is that priorities change very slowly; if you pcik something that fits, it'll probably last as long as your furniture between redecorations or kitchen between remodellings.

[HB]

Singles as a whole are better for espresso tasting than doubles; they are mellower, allowing for more tasting and an easier discernment of flavors. This is partly due to taking smaller sips, but it's also due to basket edge effects. In a single, the conical or two step shape of the basket puts a lot of more coffee around the edge compared to a double basket with a simple cylinder shape. I'm guessing the edge of a single is relatively underextracted compared to a double, and that this produces the milder flavor.

Interesting findings on single baskets, especially given their second class status among HB visitors:

True confession: To the best of my recollection, I have never (not once) pulled a single. I don't even know what tamper size would fit...

[Abe Carmeli]

I hope you all enjoyed the ride.

Awesome review dude! As always with your stuff, I've learned more than a ting or two.

[1st-line]

Wrong again. Imagine espresso machines were cars. They would go from subcompact little home machines to Mack truck 4 groupers. The Elektra Semi doesn't fit anywhere along this continuum, because it's a motorcycle. It's too light, too overpowered, too outrageous, and in need of delicate handling (you thought an e61 box gets hot?); but when it's right, the rush is unparalleled.

Jim,

For those not already aware, Federico Fregnan, of Elektra, is also the family owner of an Italian motorcycle manufacturer.

[KarlSchneider]

Singles as a whole are better for espresso tasting than doubles; they are mellower, allowing for more tasting and an easier discernment of flavors.

Jim,

I stumbled upon this insight when I got my Elektra MCaL and have followed it for the past year. The central word in my opinion is tasting. If taste is the central concern then the single is the Platonic Ideal. With the Cremina I find the range of tasting to have been widened. But, still in singles.

KS

[joatmon]

Interesting findings on single baskets, especially given their second class status among HB visitors:

<image>

True confession: To the best of my recollection, I have never (not once) pulled a single. I don't even know what tamper size would fit...

I'd pulled one in 22 months with my Pulser. Thanks to Dean Karl's suggestion, I pulled a my second single tonight on my MCaL and I said to my single basket as I was putting it away, "I'll be back!" Singles seem to rule on the MCaL.

Jim's review caused me to ponder and rethink everything I'd learned in 2 years of this hobby. Dean Karl so eloquently detailed his MCaL experiences that I was inspired to hop the Elektra Express leaving my Pulser to sit sadly in a corner of my kitchen.

Live is good. Thanks Jim and Dean Karl.

Jack

PS: Dan, can I change my "Basket" vote?