espresso machines at 1st-line.com

Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend.

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by cannonfodder on Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:42 pm

Split from Homeroasted coff vs. commercially roasted "pro" coffee




JonR10 wrote:SIDE NOTE: has anyone found a smooth, sweet and creamy-CREAMY Brazilian this year yet? I ran out of my Brasil Fazienda Cachoiera from last year's crop and haven't found anything even close yet this year...


Brazil Poco Fundo (if you can still find any, I did with a little help :wink:) and Yellow Bourbon Fazenda Cachoeira (screen dried) from Paradise Roasters. Use a 50/50 ratio, roasted separately (different roast speeds). Once first crack hits, lower the heat but do not stall the roast. Run it another two minutes after first but keep both out of second. Mix, let it rest for 5 days and pull your heart out. Thick, 100% crema, sweet, fruity, nutty and floral. Toss in some MAO Harar and this year's aged Sumatra Lintong (roasted slow and light just out of first) and you have a hum dinger citrus/nutty/light bodied/sherry and fruited summer espresso blend of goodness. But I am somewhat biased since that is my blend.

If you ask nice, I will even give you the mix percentages.
Dave Stephens
User avatar
cannonfodder
 
Posts: 4084
Joined: May 23, 2005
Location: Dayton, Oh

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by RapidCoffee on Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:31 pm

cannonfodder wrote:If you ask nice, I will even give you the mix percentages.


Sounds yummy. Pretty please? :)
John
User avatar
RapidCoffee
 
Posts: 1249
Joined: Dec 11, 2005
Location: Rapid City, SD
www.wholelattelove.com: our caffeinated commitment to you
www.wholelattelove.com: our caffeinated commitment to you

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by cannonfodder on Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:10 pm

Dave's blend # 38 iteration 7 (I had 9, liked 7 the best).

22% aged Sumatra Lintong roasted slow and just out of first crack, city
26% Brazil PocoFundo, city+ roast. Half way between first and second
26% Brazil Fazendac Cachoeir Yellow Bournon at full city, just short of first crack or the very first pop of second then drop the roast.
26% MAO Longberry Harar Horse Masala at city+ right between first and second. Roast it fast and hot to preserve the acidity and fruit.

Let it all rest for 5-7 days and have at it. Works good as a 1.5oz ristretto in the 200f range, the delicates get lost in milk so drink it neat. No fancy name just good espresso. If you need a name, 1098 or the Duck works for me, simply because I want a 1098S The Italian super bike of blends, built for one purpose.
Dave Stephens
User avatar
cannonfodder
 
Posts: 4084
Joined: May 23, 2005
Location: Dayton, Oh

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by RapidCoffee on Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:51 pm

cannonfodder wrote:Dave's blend # 38 iteration 7 (I had 9, liked 7 the best).

22% aged Sumatra Lintong roasted slow and just out of first crack, city
26% Brazil PocoFundo, city+ roast. Half way between first and second
26% Brazil Fazendac Cachoeir Yellow Bournon at full city, just short of first crack or the very first pop of second then drop the roast.
26% MAO Longberry Harar Horse Masala at city+ right between first and second. Roast it fast and hot to preserve the acidity and fruit.

Let it all rest for 5-7 days and have at it. Works good as a 1.5oz ristretto in the 200f range, the delicates get lost in milk so drink it neat. No fancy name just good espresso.

Thanks Dave. This is very similar to my standard homeroast blend: 2 parts base (Brazil, Mexico), 1 part Harrar, 1 part Indo. Hard to go wrong with this classic. IMHO it holds up quite well in milk.

cannonfodder wrote:If you need a name, 1098 or the Duck works for me, simply because I want a 1098S The Italian super bike of blends, built for one purpose.

Sure it's got enough power for ya? :twisted: Ask Tim (HairyCannonBall) to post pix of his stable. He's got a coupla Ducatis in there...
John
User avatar
RapidCoffee
 
Posts: 1249
Joined: Dec 11, 2005
Location: Rapid City, SD

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by JonR10 on Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:02 pm

cannonfodder wrote:Brazil Poco Fundo (if you can still find any, I did with a little help :wink:) and Yellow Bourbon Fazenda Cachoeira (screen dried) from Paradise Roasters.


Sounds good! It's quite a coincidence that I just pitched in for some Poco Fundo at green Coffee Buying Club, I should see a 10-pound bag showing up by week's end. As for the other, I have purchased 2 "Brasil Fazienda" coffees from CoffeeBean Corral that just arrived yesterday and 2 pounds each of Brazil Cachoeira da Grama Yellow Bourbon and Brazil Organic Fazenda Jacaranda that I roasted one batch each Saturday (and will start tasting them tomorrow or Thursday)

I have bookmarked the Paradise Brasil and plan to get some of that too.....

So when I pick the "winner" I'll buy a buncha buncha and hope to make it last!



Jasonian wrote:I'm not Jim or Ken, but you can guess my reaction to reading such words from the fingers of JonR10.

LOL - it might surprise you to know that my standing practice has always been to pull shots with BOTH a double basket and a larger basket ESPECIALLY when I'm trying out new beans. That's one of the reasons I like having multiple grinders on the bar! But these last few weeks I have been pulling doubles exclusively and playing with lower doses.
User avatar
JonR10
 
Posts: 243
Joined: May 04, 2005
Location: Houston, TX

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by cannonfodder on Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:23 pm

Be forewarned, PocoFundo will tank quickly if not properly stored. I vac pack all but 3 pounds and put it in the deep freeze for storage then get it out in 3 pound lots as I deplete my 'ready to roast' stash. In fact, I vac and deep freeze all my greens if they will be around more than a couple of months. They store very nicely that way.
Dave Stephens
User avatar
cannonfodder
 
Posts: 4084
Joined: May 23, 2005
Location: Dayton, Oh

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by rasqual on Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:39 pm

cannonfodder wrote:In fact, I vac and deep freeze all my greens if they will be around more than a couple of months. They store very nicely that way.


Do you vac large bags? What kind of gear do you have to do that?

Anyone else with pointers to such gear -- economical gear, if possible?
User avatar
rasqual
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mar 20, 2006
Location: Chicago area

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by cannonfodder on Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:06 am

rasqual wrote:Do you vac large bags? What kind of gear do you have to do that?

Anyone else with pointers to such gear -- economical gear, if possible?


Just a good old Food Saver. You can get them about anywhere, or online.
Dave Stephens
User avatar
cannonfodder
 
Posts: 4084
Joined: May 23, 2005
Location: Dayton, Oh

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by Randy G. on Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:23 am

cannonfodder wrote:Just a good old Food Saver. You can get them about anywhere, or online.

I got a lucky thrift store find of an original Tilia Foodsaver that was made in Italy when Tilia first produced them for the home market. The newer ones are easier to use, but this one is built like an LM four group. The bags are a bit expensive, but we have saved a lot of food from spoiling. For example, get the large box of cereal at Costco and then divide it into quarters and seal them (not too much vacuum or it crushes the flakes). The cats won't eat stale canned food, but have no problem with food that was vac packed.

I took your tip and split my recent green purchase and put half into the freezer after vac packing.
Espresso! My Espresso!
http://www.EspressoMyEspresso.com
User avatar
Randy G.
 
Posts: 674
Joined: May 12, 2007
Location: Yankee Hill, CA

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by Rainman on Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:49 pm

cannonfodder wrote:Just a good old Food Saver. You can get them about anywhere, or online.


Does this really make sense? I bought 15 lbs of the same green Jon bought, and if it really "tanks" as fast as Dave says, maybe I'll get that deep freeze freezer sooner... (?) ..and a foodsaver, to boot!

I coulda sworn green beans were more stable that that... 2 months?!?

Ray
LMWDP #18
Rainman
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Location: Tucson

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by cannonfodder on Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:31 pm

Not sure where 2 months came from. I have noticed a shift in flavor after about 6 months in the green. It does vary year to year but I have always found Poco to be touchier than most. It is more like an African than a Brazil in its cup.

I have found that freezing the greens (vac packed) slows that shift in flavor on most all beans. The delicate floral and fruit note fades over time, this appears (to my taste but I have not done a thorough scientific study) to slow the process. Other pro roasters do the same thing to preserve the greens. I also have a vac pack machine and two chest freezers so I leveraged the resources I had at hand.
Dave Stephens
User avatar
cannonfodder
 
Posts: 4084
Joined: May 23, 2005
Location: Dayton, Oh

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by Rainman on Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:01 am

I took your "couple of months" to the extreme (see how rumors get started?). I'm probably going to be getting some sort of deep freeze freezer before much longer to keep among other things, fresh roasted stuff around longer per the Fox, et al method. You could probably just double zip-lock bag beans as well--as long as you express as much air as possible before zipping and use the heavy duty bags, right?

Ray
LMWDP #18
Rainman
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Location: Tucson

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by Dan Streetman on Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:50 pm

poco fundo is definitely a touchy coffee to roast, it is good almost all of the time, but to really nail it can be challenging.

I would however not put it in the category of "creamy brazils" and definitely more similar to an african. In fact the first time I ever tasted that coffee I thought I had switched the ethiopian and it on the table, because I had never tasted a brazil like it before.



I know that many people can be a little rhetorical or bombastic online, but some here have shown good reason why many pro-roasters often wonder about their home-roasting counterparts.




although that is enough from me about a subject I know admittedly little about. (i don't roast it I just love it and sell it!)
Dan Streetman
Cuvee Coffee
Austin, TX
Dan Streetman
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Aug 02, 2007
Location: Austin, TX

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by JonR10 on Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:47 am

Dan Streetman wrote:poco fundo is definitely a touchy coffee to roast, it is good almost all of the time, but to really nail it can be challenging.

I would however not put it in the category of "creamy brazils" and definitely more similar to an african.


I'd like to see some tips on where the Poco is best and if it prefers longer (slower) or faster roast profiles. I guess with 10 pounds coming I have enough to experiment on my own. The reason I got it was because I thought it would be more like a wild fruity African coffee.....so it's perfectly fine if it isn't a "creamy brasil"

I had tried this bean in a French Press at Cafe Medici a couple of months ago and loved it's fruitiness (reminiscent of "fruity pebbles"), but the bag I purchased there later (just a few weeks ago) was much less pleasing. I felt it was roasted too light.

Dan, since you work for Cuvee can you help me understand why the bags on the shelf at Cafe Medici aren't roast-dated? Also I'd like to know if Mike has changed his roast profile for the Poco Fundo in the last couple of months....
User avatar
JonR10
 
Posts: 243
Joined: May 04, 2005
Location: Houston, TX

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by cannonfodder on Sat Sep 01, 2007 10:49 am

Dan Streetman wrote:poco fundo is definitely a touchy coffee to roast, it is good almost all of the time, but to really nail it can be challenging.

I would however not put it in the category of "creamy brazils" and definitely more similar to an african. In fact the first time I ever tasted that coffee I thought I had switched the ethiopian and it on the table, because I had never tasted a brazil like it before.


By itself I would agree, that is why I suggested you mix it with the yellow bourbon from Paradise roasters. It makes a good single origin blend. The fruity/citrus acidity of the Poco and the heavier body nut/chocolate of the yellow makes for a nice blend IMHO. And a good base for building an espresso blend.

I find Brazils particularly touchy when roasting, especially if you take them dark. They go from toasted almond and chocolate to burnt and carbon/ashy in the blink of an eye.

I do not roast my Poco particularly fast, but I would not call it particularly slow either. On the HotTop, I let it preheat to 200F (after the ready to go beep) before I charge the drum and let the HotTop run its normal pace after that. I drop the roast about half way between first and second.

In Jims review on coffeecuppers he mentioned that this years crop will take a dark roast better than past years. Personally, I rarely roast dark, just don't like it. I prefer to taste the origin over the roast level so most of my roasts stop before or at the first pop of second but rarely into second.
Dave Stephens
User avatar
cannonfodder
 
Posts: 4084
Joined: May 23, 2005
Location: Dayton, Oh

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by another_jim on Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:07 pm

cannonfodder wrote:In Jims review on coffeecuppers he mentioned that this years crop will take a dark roast better than past years. Personally, I rarely roast dark, just don't like it. I prefer to taste the origin over the roast level so most of my roasts stop before or at the first pop of second but rarely into second.


Actually, I said this year's will get into distillate flavors very early, and isn't suitable for going beyond the first pops.
User avatar
another_jim
 
Posts: 2349
Joined: May 05, 2005
Location: Chicago

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by JonR10 on Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:12 pm

cannonfodder wrote:By itself I would agree, that is why I suggested you mix it with the yellow bourbon from Paradise roasters. It makes a good single origin blend.

Single origin blend? I understand what you're saying but when I talk single origin I'm talking about not-blended.
In my mind, that is the definition of SO (not blended)


cannonfodder wrote:The fruity/citrus acidity of the Poco and the heavier body nut/chocolate of the yellow makes for a nice blend IMHO.

It does sound like a nice blend, and I'll most likely try it myself.....

But maybe I should have been more clear in my request (and maybe this needs to be a new thread).
I have been searching for a sweet and super-creamy Brasilian bean for my own blend (LV). I was not looking for blending advice, I am looking for a component for my LV Base Blend.

But new blending tips are always welcomed of course 8)

cannonfodder wrote:I do not roast my Poco particularly fast, but I would not call it particularly slow either. On the HotTop, I let it preheat to 200F (after the ready to go beep) before I charge the drum and let the HotTop run its normal pace after that. I drop the roast about half way between first and second.

In Jims review on coffeecuppers he mentioned that this years crop will take a dark roast better than past years. Personally, I rarely roast dark, just don't like it. I prefer to taste the origin over the roast level so most of my roasts stop before or at the first pop of second but rarely into second.

Thanks for the roasting tips!
User avatar
JonR10
 
Posts: 243
Joined: May 04, 2005
Location: Houston, TX

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by Dan Streetman on Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:11 pm

Jon,


depending as to exactly when you had both coffees there could be several things at play. When we first started doing Poco Fundo, we loved that fruitiness and thought it was great. Although there was a point after we started using it to make Michael's espresso Medici, that we experimented with taking the coffee a little darker (not dark by any means, but as you said this is a light roast), to try and maximize the sweetness for the espresso, it however took all the fruit out of the cup.

As of a couple of weeks ago, Mike had been tweaking some things to try and coax some more nuance out of some of the coffees. Some of them weren't exactly where we wanted and some took a step backwards to take two steps forward. I haven't had a chance to taste the Poco Fundo by itself recently (but I'll go get some at Medici as soon as I'm done eating lunch), but we were cupping many of the centrals at different roast degrees last week, and they were really shining. I'll let you know how the Poco Fundo is tasting when I get back later.

As to roasted on dating here is Mike's response to a similar question from Brad in Waco
Brad, I like your question and it is a really great one. Dan touched on some of the surface ideas, but it really gets much deeper than that. I can tell you that I send Medici several cases of 12 ounce bags every week. It is a true partnership to maintain the integrity at all levels. It is easy to trumpet the virtues of a date on a bag, but what does that date really mean. Let's face it, bad coffee is bad coffee no matter when it was roasted and great coffee is great coffee with or without a date. The education is much more important than any writing on a bag.

If you are interested, I could bag the same coffee every week for the next 8 -12 weeks then we can set up a blind cupping at Medici. We can talk about the big picture during the cupping. This can be fun and educational. I have done this with my coffee and with some of my other roaster friends in other parts of the country and you might find the process and results interesting.

If you are interested, get in touch with Dan and we can put some plans in place. Of course this is an open invitation and if the crowd gets to big we can find somewhere else to do the cupping so we don't drive the paying customers out of Medici.


rest assured that if you order from our online store the coffee was roasted the day that it ships. I can also tell you that at Medici, Michael is ordering 12oz bags twice a week from us, and frequently runs out of various single origins, and especially the blends.

As to how to roast the Poco Fundo, well you probably have more experience roasting than I do, but based on what I have learned this week, I am going to say that it will probably like a slower roast profile to a fast one. This is also one of the things we have been trying to tweak with the roaster, is slowing it down for some of the lighter coffees, to get full development but not lose some of those nice nuances.

If you wanted to Jon, I'm sure you could email Mike, and he would probably be happy to get you some of our Brazil Fazenda Ipanema Dulce, which we use in the Meritage for it's creamy body.

hope that helps!
Dan Streetman
Cuvee Coffee
Austin, TX
Dan Streetman
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Aug 02, 2007
Location: Austin, TX

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by JonR10 on Sat Sep 01, 2007 2:25 pm

Dan Streetman wrote:....after we started using it to make Michael's espresso Medici....


Oh yeah! I forgot to ask about the availability of Medici blend!

The cappuccino I had there was lovely with loads of chocolate and hints of fruit and spice and Michael mentioned that y'all had been tweaking the "Medici" blend together. Is that blend being sold either through Cuvee's website or through Medici's website or do i need to drive to Austin to get some?


It is blends like this one that make even the most passionate home roaster want to sample the wares of the truly gifted pro roasters out there......guys like mike McKim for example, working with an accomplished barista and cafe owner to develop an out-of-this-world espresso blend....... :D
User avatar
JonR10
 
Posts: 243
Joined: May 04, 2005
Location: Houston, TX

Link to "Brazilian beans, what is your preferred blend."by cannonfodder on Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:15 pm

another_jim wrote:Actually, I said this year's will get into distillate flavors very early, and isn't suitable for going beyond the first pops.


My apologies, the underlying theme is the same, stay out of second crack.
Dave Stephens
User avatar
cannonfodder
 
Posts: 4084
Joined: May 23, 2005
Location: Dayton, Oh

Next

Return to Home Roasting