Bezzera BZ02S Reviews? Comments?

[Enrico Leoni]

I've been searching for a machine, and my most recent find was the Bezzera BZ02S.

I've googled, and looked on a bunch of forums, but no luck, I can not seem to find a review of this machine.

Is it too new? Anyone know anything about it?

Thank you.

Enrico.

[HB]

According to Jim at 1st-line, the Bezzera BZ02S is the Livia 90 with a less expensive casing. There are lots of reviews of the Livia 90 on CoffeeGeek and elsewhere. The price of $699 is pretty darn good too.

[Enrico Leoni]

Oh, I know. I was just wondering if anyone bought this machine, and if anyone had an opinion on it...ie workings, subtle differences, etc, etc.

Enrico.

[Pythagoras]

A few weeks ago I purchased a Bezzera BZ02S. I love it but only have the Starbucks' Barista to compare. There is no comparison. The BZ produces a drink that bears no resemblance to anything I've had before. Rich and wonderful. I pull 6 or so doubles daily and have to hold myself back. Will be getting a Mazzer soon to end the acquisition phase of this obsession. I would unhesitatingly recommend the BZ. It is heavy, which I equate to well made, makes great drinks and is beautiful to boot.

[luca]

... but it doesn't have an actively heated group.

[whodat]

... but it doesn't have an actively heated group.

Is the idea here to say "My machine has an actively heated group!" or is it to make killer espresso (& related beverages)?
From looking at threads (I think mostly on CoffeeGeek) as far as I can tell, the E-61s may be a bit "more forgiving" than the Livia (or Bezzera), but the overall impression I got was that they both made excellent espresso in the right hands. They are essentially two different routes to the same goal.

Any comments from those with direct experience of both?

[poison]

Oh please. If you're going to buy a machine, you should buy the best you can. And if you have two machines, one with an E61 style group, one without, and all other things being equal, you should probably buy the E61. As if it's something you shouldn't bother considering.

People love to say 'it's all in the baristas skill'. I agree, to some extent, but a good barista will get better shots out of a Bricoletta than a Silvia.

So no, it isn't 'all' the barista. Project that to the Bezzera: any given owner will likely be able to get better espresso from an E61 than a Livia or Bezzera. If he increased his skill to get god shots from a Bezzera, imagine what he would do with an E61 (assuming it is indeed superior)? For him or her, it comes down to price. Buy the best one you can.

[RapidCoffee]

From looking at threads (I think mostly on CoffeeGeek) as far as I can tell, the E-61s may be a bit "more forgiving" than the Livia (or Bezzera), but the overall impression I got was that they both made excellent espresso in the right hands... Any comments from those with direct experience of both?

Not the Livia, but I do have two rotary pump machines in my house: a Rancilio L7 and a Quick Mill Vetrano. Vetrano is E61, Rancilio is not (I think the group is heated by direct conduction from the boiler - anyone care to confirm this?). My experience is very much in accord with your comments. Both machines are capable of making excellent espresso. The Vetrano feels more forgiving, but whether this is due solely to the E61 brew group is anyone's guess. The fundamental machine settings (pressure & temp), although similar, are undoubtedly somewhat different. I'm using the same bottomless PF (thanks Lino!) and filter basket, but there's less head room in the Vetrano (have to be more careful with overdosing). And of course the Vetrano is brand new.

"Best" is a slippery concept when you're dealing with espresso...

- John

[HB]

Any comments from those with direct experience of both?

I've not compared E61 lever-type espresso machines and the Livia side-by-side, however Bob Barraza commented on the Livia's sensitivity to overdosing and a modification he tried with good results in How can I stop worrying and learn to love Livia? Jim later added an excellent answer to your question:

Mark Prince was one of the first amateurs to get an HX machine, and he chose a Livia. Well after the fact he reported it took him a very long time to get up to speed on it. There's some how-to hints on Marks coffeekid site, and I got what I'm writing below from chatting with him. I know of no website that gives a full how-to for the Livia.

While E61 machines have a much shorter learning curve; Mark thinks the Livia, once learnt, is as good or better. The same would apply to the old Bezzera 90 or the new 02 (being sold at 1st line for a killer price), which have the same internals.

First off, get a deeper basket -- the LM doubles are apparently best for this machine -- the Bezzera baskets are very shallow and sensitive to overloading. Alan Frew in a long test found that many so called machine differences were really differences in basket size. There needs to be ample headspace between the top of the puck and the screen, since there is no room behind the screen for water to steep. Even after the puck has expanded, there should be no shower screen marks on it after the shot. This also means you'll need to tamp very meticulously, so the puck doesn't disintegrate.

The Livias have a high water debit and large gicleurs; therefore they are quite sensitive to grind. You may need to do in-between grinds on the MDF, either by holding the setting wheel between two stops, or by starting the grind at the finer stop, and clicking it to the coarser one half way through.

The thermal setup on the Livia is a largish 6 ounce or so heat exchanger in a vertical boiler, with much of the stored water in the steam, feeding a light weight brew head bolted to the boiler. The brewhead will run about 10F to 15F too cool on idle. This design is sized so that the flush of overheated HX water will heat the head and cool down the HX at the same time -- it requires the famous "blank shot," a 1 to 2 ounce flush rather than the extended ones used by the E61s. This is actually more convenient for the first shot from idle; although the design is not as temperature stable for a long series of shots. The cooling flush may only take 3 to 6 seconds -- all the water dance stuff described for the E61 machines does not apply. Use a measuring cup to find out how long it takes to get this amount of water.

There's lots of consumer reviews of the Livia up on the coffeegeek site; some have user tips.

On a related note, the comparisons in Pressure profiles, preinfusion and the forgiveness factor convinced me that the revered status of the E61 isn't all about the expansion chamber. We don't talk about it (perhaps because it's not easily measured like pressure), but I believe other factors like the headspace below and above the dispersion screen and the effectiveness of the water jet breaker / dispersion block are import contributors to forgiveness too.

[poison]

HB (Halle Berry?? ), your post above reminded me of something I've though over the last couple weeks: your site is great, with an insane level of knowledge present, but more than that I appreciate your helpfulness and posts such as the one above. I'm not sure quite how you remember where stuff is (your bookmark list must be a mile long) but it's truly helpful, and without the attitude some forums present (Search, n00b!!).

Really nice!

[HB]

Aw shucks, I appreciate it.

HB is lucky to have top contributors who take the time to share their knowledge, so I try to "revive" the best threads when I can. By the way, as time allows and with the permission of the author, I also would like to promote exceptionally good threads to top-level articles (e.g., Abe's interesting and humorous Interview with Versalab Inventor John Bicht). I would also like to start a FAQ / "Best of" compendium, though I haven't decided on the form (e.g., a sticky topic for each forum or a top-level article).

[Psyd]

your site is great, with an insane level of knowledge present, but more than that I appreciate your helpfulness and posts such as the one above... ...it's truly helpful, and without the attitude some forums present (Search, n00b!!).

Really nice!

Yah, goes double for me. I've been on a few fora, and this one is like a combination of living room and library.

[RancilioRancilio]

I think I am going to pull the trigger on a Bezzera BZ02S for my office and I was wondering if anyone has any feedback? I need a machine that is capable of pulling fantastic straight shots and has good steaming power. The price of this machine is very attractive and I also like the way it looks. I plan on pairing it with a MACAP M4. Any comments before I pull the trigger?

[HB]

Merged with thread on same subject. There's a few related topics too (link).

[boar_d_laze]

I'm no expert on espresso making, but I play one on...

No, that's not what I meant. I'm no expert, but I've been using a Livia 90 for almost 20 years, so I do have some expertise when it comes to the Bezerra/Pasquini (BP). My experience gained at friends' houses, and from shopping for machines in Los Angeles (where there are a few with which to play) leads me to conclude that with vibe pump, pour-over prosumers, with a few exceptions, the obvious distinctions are appearance, price and secondary attributes such as steaming and hot water; but the quality of construction and components does count.

In these mid price levels ($500 - $1500) you're looking at machines which, after you've learned to adapt your techniques to the machines idiosyncrasies, when paired with a suitable grinder, are capable of producing usually good, and occasionally excellent coffee. If the big chain coffee houses usually pour 4s, most of yours will be 7s, with plenty of 8s, and once in a great while a WTF?! 10. You'll get the odd 3 or 4, too, but that's why there are sinks.

As you ascend the price ladder consistency and quality improve subtly. There are probably a few machines which are stinkers and don't justify their price. There are also a few which work a little above their price, and the Bezzera is one of them. Not a giant step. The Bezzera is close to the bottom of the "prosumer" price range. You expect less machine for $700 than for $1500, and you get it. It's reflected in the coffee. At the top and bottom of this price range the differences in the number of good cups is no longer subtle. FWIW, the B is not mechanically identical to the P. There are (or used to be) differences other than the casing having more to do with longevity and convenience than performance. I understand the brew path (boiler, heater, hx, group, etc.) is the same. Steam is good. Hot water not so much.

Considering the market generally, the Bezzera is more for the money than you'd expect, while the Pasquini has been superseded by price-point competitors and is less.

I've got no quibble with anything said by people who've actually used BPs. The people who market BP claim they're ready to start working 10 minutes after you've hit the switch. No. It takes around 30. At that point you can pull a couple of ounces through a clean portafilter to equalize temperatures. Wait a couple of minutes, pull an ounce into a demi-tasse, let the demi sit. Release the porta, fill it, tamp it, and lock it in. Empty the demi, and fill it with coffee. Watch the stream carefully for color changes, shut off the pump when the color lightens and the steam begins to exhibit translucence. Empty the porta and get ready for the next shot. If the machine has more than a couple of minutes between shots it will require pulling another blank shot.

It's already been said that Bezzerra/Pasquini baskets are not the best. Speaking of baskets, you'll pull sweeter coffee with better crema if you do not thoroughly rinse and clean the baskets between shots, but just reuse them as they come from the knock box. I'm pretty sure this has to do with back-pressure mimicking pre-infusion. After a couple of hours though you do have to clean as cooked-in oils start to announce their presence.

Backflush every 10 shots or so (every other day, for most of us), backflush with detergent every 150 (2X/month). Every or every other backflush with detergent remove the screen and dispersion block and thoroughly clean them. In 18 years (or whatever it's been), I've had to descale twice, replace the gasket twice, and replace the hot water valve once.

Bottom line: It's a good machine for the money, but there's no free lunch. If you can afford more, spend more, get more.

Rich