Best way to recharge the in-tank water softener

[sunnyu]

What is the best way to recharge the intank, but removable, water softener?

[HB]

From the Insanely Long Water FAQ:

This is the small softener sold along with the Silvia that fits on the intake hose end. The softeners sold with other machines look identical, so this may be a generic product. I was told to recharge mine weekly with a few tablespoons of pure salt in a highball glass. The test result is based on this procedure. This softener also does not completely eliminate hardness. In my case, it reduces hardness from 150 mg/l to about 50 mg/l. The performance is about equal to a new Brita jug filter. Weekly recharging keeps it at this level. At this level of softening, my water still generates scale, but at about half the rate of unsoftened water. The softening creates close to zero LI water at coffee brewing temperatures, albeit with higher alkalinity than hardness. The combination of a new Brita and hose end did reduce the water to a 20 mg/l nonscaling level.

[Dogshot]

My Brewtus II came with this type of softener. After recharging the softener a few times, I noticed some of the resin innards had somehow made their way into the water reservoir and were sitting at the bottom of the container. Although I realize that the resin needs to pass through the top of the softening cartridge, so leakage out the bottom may not be a relevant issue, I decided against taking any chances with it gumming up the innards of my machine, so I removed it.

Does that sound prudent, or unreasonably paranoid?

Now I use RO that is re-mineralized with about 20% tap water. I plan to buy a tds meter that my local water guy sells for about $50.

But to answer your question, I can summarize from the Brewtus instruction manual. Remove your reservoir from the machine, and fill it with warm water and about 3 large spoonfulls of salt. Remove the softener from the machine intake tube, and attach the softener to a piece of tubing that you keep for this purpose. Place the softener in the reservoir full of salty water, and create a siphon by sucking out some of the water from the other end of the tube. Let this flow into the sink until the reservoir is empty. This recharges the softener. Clean your reservoir, reattach your softener to the machine intake tube, and you are set.


Mark

[cannonfodder]

Make sure you DO NOT use table salt, it contains anti clumping agents and iodine (heaven forbid we all get gout from iodine deficiency). Use Diamond Crystal kosher salt, it is straight sodium chloride, no nasty additives. It is my personal choice for cooking. I have an in inline filter/softener on the water supply plumbed into my machine. I used my in tank softener for about a month.

[Ken Fox]

Make sure you DO NOT use table salt, it contains anti clumping agents and iodine (heaven forbid we all get gout from iodine deficiency). Use Diamond Crystal kosher salt, it is straight sodium chloride, no nasty additives. It is my personal choice for cooking. I have an in inline filter/softener on the water supply plumbed into my machine. I used my in tank softener for about a month.

If you get gout from iodine deficiency, I promise to help get your story into a medical journal

Iodine was originally added to table salt for the purpose of preventing THYROID GOITER, which occurs in people who live in areas where iodine is not present in the normal diet and water intake. The places I'm aware of like this are in the midwest, in certain parts of Minnesota, for instance. Iodine is needed by the thyroid in order to produce thyroid hormone, and without iodine the thyroid gland goes into overdrive and goiters are the result.

Non-iodized table salt can be purchased in most areas; both iodized and non-iodized are sold in my area.

In any event, do use kosher or rock salt for recharging in tank softeners, as these are the types of salt recommended by the machine mfrs.

ken

[cannonfodder]

Gout, Goiter, I knew it was a G . I am not a doctor, but I have seen one before.

[sunnyu]

If you get gout from iodine deficiency, I promise to help get your story into a medical journal

Iodine was originally added to table salt for the purpose of preventing THYROID GOITER, which occurs in people who live in areas where iodine is not present in the normal diet and water intake. The places I'm aware of like this are in the midwest, in certain parts of Minnesota, for instance. Iodine is needed by the thyroid in order to produce thyroid hormone, and without iodine the thyroid gland goes into overdrive and goiters are the result.

Non-iodized table salt can be purchased in most areas; both iodized and non-iodized are sold in my area.

In any event, do use kosher or rock salt for recharging in tank softeners, as these are the types of salt recommended by the machine mfrs.

ken

It's rumoured that iodonized salt is vital in the Minnesota gene pool

[Wescott]

Somewhere, on some forum, someone suggested using dishwasher detergent instead of Urnex for soaking portafilters. It works well for me, and it's one more special supply that I don't need to hunt down.

I have an idea that dishwasher water conditioning salt ought to work for recharging in-tank resin water softeners because I suspect it's doing a similar job in the dishwasher.

Can anyone confirm or squelch this notion?

[sunnyu]

Somewhere, on some forum, someone suggested using dishwasher detergent instead of Urnex for soaking portafilters. It works well for me, and it's one more special supply that I don't need to hunt down.

I have an idea that dishwasher water conditioning salt ought to work for recharging in-tank resin water softeners because I suspect it's doing a similar job in the dishwasher.

Can anyone confirm or squelch this notion?

Dishwasher detergent has some of the best abilities to dissolve baked on oils.

One observation about dishwasher salt conditioner. Manufacturers of these chemicals can safely bank on the fact that no one will ever drink dishwasher runoff.

[barry]

Somewhere, on some forum, someone suggested using dishwasher detergent instead of Urnex for soaking portafilters. It works well for me, and it's one more special supply that I don't need to hunt down.

i've used cascade powder for years.

one caution: watch out for the fragrances which are sometimes added to such material. they can be hard to get rid of afterwards.

[Wescott]

about dishwasher salt conditioner. Manufacturers of these chemicals can safely bank on the fact that no one will ever drink dishwasher runoff.

An intriguing point, sunnyu. I'll take that as a medium-grade squelch. However, I'll have to see what my choices are here. Kosher salt is not something I have yet seen, although I've never looked. "Sea salt" is sold very expensively for cooking in certain stores, and any locally packaged or produced salt is likely to contain a bunch of impurities. Imported dishwasher salt might work out to be my best compromise.

watch out for the fragrances which are sometimes added to such material

Agreed, barry. I don't like those fragrances in general and always avoid them. I can get Calgon and European brands, but often one can't find the same product twice in any store.

So far, the question is academic since I'm on the verge of upgrading my Gaggia Classic. There's a good chance that I'll plumb in with an in-line softener and filter. I've been using a Brita on the Gaggia with some occasional citric acid flushes. I've not been too obsessed with eliminating scale because (per Jim Schulman) it can protect the aluminum boiler from corrosion if the alkalinity is in a certain range. So far, this seems to have been working in my favor. But my habits will have to change with an HX or double-boiler replacement.

[Ken Fox]

An intriguing point, sunnyu. I'll take that as a medium-grade squelch. However, I'll have to see what my choices are here. Kosher salt is not something I have yet seen, although I've never looked. "Sea salt" is sold very expensively for cooking in certain stores, and any locally packaged or produced salt is likely to contain a bunch of impurities. Imported dishwasher salt might work out to be my best compromise.

I doubt there is anywhere other than maybe in the third world, that "Kosher salt" isn't available. It is used for many many things outside of the name it goes by here. I'd imagine the same product is sold in different places under different names, such as "rock salt." There is no reason to use sea salt; it confers no advantages for this use.

I recently acquired a set of salt and pepper mills. You read this right, the salt thing is a mill also. Regular table salt falls right through. I put "Kosher salt" into it and it works fine. Kosher salt is regularly called for in cooking.

ken

[Wescott]

Thanks for your willingness to help, Ken.

You are absolutely right that coarse kosher-style salt is available here, and cheaply. It's used for pickling. However, I'm not sure whether this locally packaged version would have less chance of impurities than the imported dishwasher salt (that no one expects anyone to consume). If I do find import kosher salt, it will probably be at a prohibitive price in some of the fancier supermarkets here. But I will check for imported kosher/coarse salt.

[cannonfodder]

The important thing is that it should be pure salt. No iodine, anti clumping agents etc... Sea salt is way too expensive, I was going to send you some kosher, then I noticed you location, Moscow. A 3$ box of salt would probably cost $30 to mail and who knows if it ever makes it out of customs.

Regardless of what it is labeled as, as long as it is pure salt you should be OK. Avoid something like rock salt (unless it is cooking rock salt). The raw rock salt contains a LOT of extra minerals because it is unrefined and not intended for human consumption.

[Wescott]

Thanks for the generous urge, cannonfodder.

You are right about things sometimes not emerging from Russian customs, and you judged the freight about right too.
I get my green beans from Sweet Maria about 22 pounds at a time. If the value of the package is under $100, it comes in without customs. (Before I knew this, I once ordered about $109 worth. The customs amount was trivial, maybe $4, but time in customs was as long as the time in the mail, which was already six weeks.) By USPS, the cheapest way, my package costs about $50 in postage.

Using salt without additives is something I will definitely do. I've just got to find a reasonably priced and reliable kind.

[sunnyu]

wait a minute...moscow, russia?? Are you an American living there?

[Wescott]

Yes. Exactly. Been here over eleven years. Brought my Gaggia back from Italy in my luggage. That was before the commercial side of things here was really developed. Now I've got upgrade fever, and even here I've got too many choices to make the decision simple.

[ChrisC]

Sorry to bring back an old thread, but I just bought an in-tank water softener (this one), and it didn't come with any instructions.

Questions:

- Did I buy the right thing?
- Is soaking it in salty water enough, or do I need to run the salty water through it as per Mark/Dogshot's post above?
- If soaking, for how long? If running water through, how much water? Just one reservoir worth? (I have a Silvia.)
- Assuming water should be warm (salt mixes better that way), but are there any temp recommendations? Like, don't go too hot or anything like that?
- Do I need to do this before I use it for the first time?
- Do you rinse it after this before reattaching it to the machine?
- Do I really need to do it every two weeks? I make 10 or less doubles a week, and water in Montreal is I believe about 7 grains (water report here).

Thanks to all in advance for your help!

Chris

[ChrisC]

Okay, no responses, but I did find some more info over on CG, so I just went ahead.

I learned that I had to charge it before installing, so I used hot tap water (not near boiling), 3 tablespoons in a 10- oz. glass. I drew water into the softener by sucking on the small tube end, then let it sit in the salty water in the glass for 10 minutes or so. Then I rinsed by sucking water through until it no longer tasted salty. I'm planning on doing this every two weeks or so.

As I was also rinsing from descaling when I installed this, I was paying attention to water flow, and noticed two things that concerned me:

- First, that my Silvia's flow rate only seems to be 500 ml/min under no pressure, instead of the normal 650.

- Second, that with the in tank softener attached, that drops to 400 ml/min.

Should I be worried about either of these?

Thanks again in advance,
Chris

[jesawdy]

- First, that my Silvia's flow rate only seems to be 500 ml/min under no pressure, instead of the normal 650.

- Second, that with the in tank softener attached, that drops to 400 ml/min.

Should I be worried about either of these?

Chris-

I don't have a softener on Silvia, but I wouldn't be too concerned given those numbers.