Best Inexpensive Grinder?

[MeTheGreat]

After a year of tinkering I have come to the conclusion that I love coffee/espresso and want to invest the time and effort to really do it right and have spent the last several months doing research and extensive practice with my old machine. I just purchased a Gaggia Evolution (admittedly not the best machine but one I could afford and still have money left to buy a real grinder). I am honestly completely overwhelmed by the amount of information I have studied over the last few months and would really like a more experienced opinion on a grinder that I preferably will not have to upgrade for the next 5 years that will perform well at a reasonable cost. I am a college student so my budget is very limited but I am looking to spend $200~300 on a grinder and would appreciate any help in determining what would be the best for my buck. My research has brought me to the Rancilio Rocky with Doser or without and the Gaggia 8002 MDF as viable options as both have met with semi-unified good reviews. Any comments on these or others that fit somewhere around my cost (I wouldn't mind going a little higher than my price range) would be oh so welcome.

Also I might add that I am not altogether pleased with my Evolution after having practiced with it over the past few weeks. Any advice on if this was the right machine and what other alternatives would be possible would be greatly appreciated (I still have time to return it or upgrade the machine).

Thanks for any help.

[mattwells]

I think that you will find that people like the Rocky more than the MDF, but having used neither, I will not make a recommendation. The Evolution seems fine. It is probably equivalent to the other Gaggia's as far as espresso production. If you don't have a grinder (or have a cheap grinder) you will never touch the full capabilities of your machine. Being able to dial in the grind is invaluable as far as making espresso. My prediction is that you will see a dramatic increase in your espresso quality when you get a good burr grinder to dial in your shots. Don't count the Gaggia out yet.

[Psyd]

Find a Mazzer that needs a hopper and some lids. Immediately buy new burrs for it. There are Super Jolly's and Majors out there, and there are machines being offered for <$300 on e-bay and CG, rebuilt and all shiny and custom. Once you get it, clean it and start putting the new parts on it, it'll be a thing forever. They are burly, heavy duty, and designed to grind on daily, ten to sixteen hours a day keeping up with even the Starbucks crowds. The 'retired' ones will pasture nicely in your kitchen, as the 'twins' have in mine.

[glenn71x]

Hey all....Newbie here....

I am looking to get a grinder to pair with a Gaggia Evolution without busting the bank...
I was originally thinking about the Capresso Infinity, really cant beat $85.....Having read through a lot of the posts now..I am not sure that would be good enough though....
Will that grinder be adequate enough to produce a pretty good espresso?
If not what is the nest step up?
Some sites have recommended the Solis/Baratza line as being better than the Capresso but a lot of the user reviews I have read state many complaints with these.
The Gaggia MDF for $200 is over double the Infinity....Is it double the performance though?

Any and all recommendations will be appreciated....just keep in mind I am not looking to break the bank....

Thanks everyone, Great Site!

[HB]

I merged your post with a similar topic (Best espresso gear on a student's budget? is another one worth reading).

Will that grinder be adequate enough to produce a pretty good espresso? If not what is the nest step up?

Sorry, I don't do "adequate" when it comes to the grinder.

The grinder gates the quality of your espresso and is why you'll hear so many recommendations not to skimp on it. The Gaggia MDF is frequently mentioned as a price performer, as is the Cunill Tranquilo. One advantage of the "marquee" names like Rocky Rancilio / Mazzer Mini is the resale value. I sold my Rocky at 70% current retail when upgrading to the Mazzer Mini.

[another_jim]

The minimum home espresso grinder in the US is any model with the Trespade conical burrs (Innova/Ascaso conical, Pavoni PGC, Lux/Quaha, and a few others). Currently the Lux can be had around $160. These are loud and messy, but have excellent grind quality.

The Infinity would be a killer, but the burrs don't adjust down to zero (this is deliberate; no tweaks available), so it's completely random whether you'll get one that works with non-restrictor baskets -- I've seen raves and send backs. Capresso's market is such that allowing fine grind settings that can damage the grinder would result in more send backs. (in the mass market coffee maker business, PT Barnum, not Ford, is the guiding light)

[Beezer]

Having owned both the Gaggia MDF and the Rocky, I can say that the Rocky is a considerably nicer grinder. I used the MDF for five years with my old Gaggia Espresso, and it was maddeningly inconsistent. Sometimes I'd get a decent shot, but a lot of the time my shots went straight into the sink. Part of this was due to my ignorance and poor technique, but I think it had a lot to do with the grinder too. The MDF doesn't have fine enough clicks to tweak the grinder for different kinds of beans, freshness of the beans, etc.

When I switched to the Rocky, I was shocked how much better my shots became. Tons of crema, tiger flecking, and much more flavor and nuance in the cup that I never noticed before. Now, I hardly ever have to throw a shot out once the grinder is dialed in for the particular beans I'm using. And if a shot does run a bit fast or slow, one click will usually dial it back in where it needs to be. So even though the Rocky is almost $100 more than the MDF, it's well worth the extra money.

Either way though, you should notice a big improvement in your shots with any serious burr grinder. Don't despair because you can't get a good shot right now. Gaggias have large 58mm portafilters and demand a fine, consistent grind and proper tamping for a good result. In other words, don't upgrade your espresso machine, just get a good grinder! And don't forget to use high quality, fresh beans.

[Worldman]

Methinks low end grinders should be no lower than:
1. Rocky
2. Cunill
3. MDF

I own and currently use numbers 2 & 3 and my son-in-law has #1. Of these the MDF is the lowest grade grinder you can use and make decent espresso; mine is currently relegated to decaf duties, i.e. REAL infrequent use.

Between Rocky and Cunill, it is a tough call...but I would go with the Cunill because of its larger burrs, bigger motor and all around gusto.

Len

[luca]

Hi guys,

Just to fill in the missing link between the conicals and the flat burrs ...

I owned a Rocky for two years, which has given way to a Mazzer Mini (on semi-permanent loan ;P). I have used the nemox lux and similar stepped, conical burr grinders and have some stepless conical burr grinders at work.

In terms of what's in the cup, the stepless conicals reign supreme. If I had bought something like an Ascaso I2 or whatever instead of a Rocky, I probably wouldn't have felt it necessary to get the Mini. Although the Rocky has much poorer fit and finish than the I2, I suspect that it will last longer. The I2 is also much easier to dial in than the Rocky, seeing as it is stepless. This means that when you get your barista skills down pat you get the option of dosing your coffee up to bring out more of the chocolatey type flavours in your blend or dosing it down to bring out more acidity and sweetness. The Rocky's steps weren't fine enough to allow me to do this. The steps on the Lux as probably even wider than the Rocky, though, which I would think is problematic.

Hope that helps,

Luca

[bobdc]

Sometime ago I purchased a Quick Mill Doserless Stepless Espresso Grinder from Chris's Coffee Service for, I believe, $275. I have been quite satisfied with it. I suggest you check this one out and read some of the favorable reviews. Best wishes in your search.

[phinneygirl]

What about the Rocky? If going with it, should you go doser or doserless? I've had recommendations to purchase this grinder but don't know which one I want to get. What are pros/cons of each?

[HB]

The Rancilio Rocky garners lots of recommendations. I had the doserless and was very satisfied with it, although I later upgraded to a Mazzer Mini. As for which model, the answer is "it depends." The thread Pros and cons of doser vs. doserless grinders? broaches the subject; the subsequent poll showed an even division of opinion. Having owned the doserless version, I would opt for the doser because metting out grounds with a practiced thwack thwack thwack helps even out the distribution.

[jesawdy]

The Rocky doserless is not a bad grinder... but I would plan on committing myself to using the WDT for consistent results. I have not used the Rocky doser model to speak to the quality of the doser, but as Dan points out, it can break up the clumps.

[lilotaku]

The Rancilio Rocky garners lots of recommendations. I had the doserless and was very satisfied with it, although I later upgraded to a Mazzer Mini. As for which model, the answer is "it depends." The thread Pros and cons of doser vs. doserless grinders? broaches the subject; the subsequent poll showed an even division of opinion. Having owned the doserless version, I would opt for the doser because metting out grounds with a practiced thwack thwack thwack helps even out the distribution.

Is it the static that makes the grounds clump up due to the plastic chute? I've noticed a few "modded" chutes on the Rocky's, with most people making metal chutes and grounding them. I personally am in the market for a new budget grinder myself and am interested in getting a rocky doserless just due to less moving parts and less cleaning. I wouldn't mind modding the chute to a metal one since i am quite handy with machinery.

[HB]

Is it the static that makes the grounds clump up due to the plastic chute?

I think most clumping is due to compression of the grounds as they make their way out of the grinding chamber. Static may account for minor clumping, but not the "boulders" that are the bane of some doserless grinders.


Modified Super Jolly from Banish Uneven Extractions with the WDT

[jesawdy]

It's not static (but that can be an issue unto itself). The grinds get slightly compacted and adhere to each other as they are "extruded" from the grinder chute. These extruded clumps (big and small) fall straight into the portafilter and do not get broken up in any way unless the fall disturbs the clump. I assume internal oils to the coffee, etc. help the clumps form. I have never had any significant static issues with the plastic chute on the Rocky doserless (not very dry here). The only time I have static issues is if I try to grind straight into a plastic container. Another chute design for easy cleaning would be a welcome addition.

[RapidCoffee]

I think most clumping is due to compression of the grounds as they make their way out of the grinding chamber. Static may account for minor clumping, but not the "boulders" that are the bane of some doserless grinders.

I agree with Dan. There's no static problem on my "clump monster". Plastic parts exacerbate static, which is why I opted for a metal spout.

However, there's obvious clumping. I'm convinced this takes place in the horizontal exit chute from the burrs. The initial spray of grinds is not clumpy, then grinds start building up in the chute, and clump as they are extruded.

A doserless grinder design with a vertical path from the burrs down to the basket (such as the Versalab M3) would solve the clumping problem. The Mazzer Mini E uses a small wire screen that helps to break up clumps as they exit the chute. (I've been meaning to try this, but the WDT works so well that I never got around to it.) Apparently the new Macap M4 E doserless does not, and the results are predictably similar to my doserless SJ.

Dosers certainly make sense in a busy coffee shop. For single-shot home grinding, the main advantage of dosers is to break up clumps. FWIW I've been very happy with my modded SJ, despite the clumping issues.

[Randy G.]

The Rocky doserless is not a bad grinder... but I would plan on committing myself to using the WDT for consistent results. I have not used the Rocky doser model to speak to the quality of the doser, but as Dan points out, it can break up the clumps.

I have the Rocky Doser model (the original, non-stainless model) that I bought new and have been using daily for 6½ years. Although a doserless model would appear to be a good choice for espresso, there are features that make the doser desirable.

- The "TTT" *1 method of dispensing the coffee gives better distribution and less clumping. The sound is always a part of any barista competition if that means anything.
- A doser makes it possible to grind nearly ½ pound of coffee at a time without watching a bag or container as the coffee drops as you would with a doserless model (some exceptions do exist such as the Macaps with the bag clip).
- When making multiple drinks in a row, the PF can be leveled off back into the doser to save coffee (once the grind is verified).
- The grind can be started, and if the barista is distracted, the coffee will not overflow the PF

Problems that a doser presents:
- it adds one more clean-up chore at the end of a session. But if cleanliness were a priority I would be using the Keurig exclusively..

I am looking for a replacement for Rocky- specifically to get one with infinite adjustment. The Rocky, like nearly all grinders in that price range, have a fairly wide adjustment when it comes to espresso, with one click being from three to seven seconds of pull time. it may not be a problem as you start out, but later down the line you will find it restrictive when fine-tuning your espresso.

*1 TTT - v. abbv. for Thwack, thwack, thwack. A method of dispensing finely-ground coffee into a portafilter for espresso use that nearly eliminates clumping by which the user repeatedly and quickly operates the dosing lever during the grinding process to dispense smaller amounts of coffee per dispensing cycle than would normally be dispensed.
©2007 EspressoMyEspresso.com
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[JeremyNelson]

Been using an Isomac Prof for a few weeks now (couldn't afford Rocky +, didn't want to settle for Virtuoso/MDF). Once you make the modifications (listed in my review on CoffeeGeek), it grinds very fine. I like it too because it takes up far less space but still has solid stainless steel construction (just have to be careful with that plastic hopper...why they cheaped out there, I don't know).

[cafeIKE]

If your burr looks like the lower one here, it's the same POS as in the Isomac Gran Macinino. This grinder cannot be recommended.