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Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test

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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by HB on Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:20 pm

Friday before last, a group of the regulars at Counter Culture Coffee's espresso lab convened to cup samples of the same coffee roasted using the five Behmor 1600 coffee roaster profiles. The green coffee was provided by Counter Culture Coffee, specifically their Harfusa Yirgacheffe. Mike roasted the five 8 ounce samples earlier in the week and delivered them in plastic bags. Nathan at Counter Culture provided a sample of their roast of the same coffee rested for the same number of days.

Test Strategy

Given the limited time for our panel, we chose a very simple single elimination strategy, what we called "pick the loser." Each round the tasters would pick the sample that would be eliminated; the rest would advance to the next round. That is:
    Round 1, Flight 1: coffees 1, 2, and 3
    Round 1, Flight 2: coffees 4, 5, and 6

    Round 2, Flight 1: two coffees from Round 1, Flight 1
    Round 2, Flight 2: two coffees from Round 1, Flight 2

    Final round: winner of Round 2, Flight 1 versus winner of Round 2, Flight 2.
Mike was not present and has not revealed the roast profiles of the Behmor samples. To randomize the samples, I transferred the five Behmor samples and the one Counter Culture Coffee sample to identical bags, discreetly marked on the bottom with their original letter designation (Mike used A..E). I then did the shell game mixup of the bags and prominently relabelled the front of each bag 1..6. Thus nobody knew which bag contained which sample.

For each sample, we prepared three cups and cupped them using Counter Culture's standard form (fragrance, aroma, break, brightness, flavor, body, aftertaste). In addition to taste notes, each taster selected a "loser" for each round.

Results:

Round 1, Flight 1: coffees 1, 2, and 3

We expected this taste test to be difficult, but it proved otherwise. From samples 1, 2, and 3, only 2 advanced to the next round by unanimous vote. My own notes for the losers included damning terms like earthy, flat, bitter, wet hay... not a good start.

Round 1, Flight 2: coffees 4, 5, and 6

While not as bad as the other flight, it was nearly unanimous that only sample 5 should advance. Sample 4 garnered one vote, so the others grudgingly agreed to advance it to the next round.

Round 2, Flight 1: coffee 2

No need to repeat since its competitors were eliminated by clear majority vote.

Round 2, Flight 2: coffees 4 and 5

Since there was only three competitors remaining and time was running out, we decided to advance both of these without another taste test.

Final round: coffees 2, 4, and 5

At last a close call! Originally there were six tasters, but as we were running late, one of the attendees for the public Friday cupping arrived. Thus the seven tasters sampled the coffees and there was a near split decision for the winner:
    3 votes for coffee 2
    4 votes for coffee 5
    0 votes for coffee 4

I believe our hosts felt a short moment of trepidation as we checked if their roasted coffee was among the finalists. With a sigh of relief, indeed coffee 2 was their sample. We only had a few minutes to discuss the rationale behind our votes. I was among the tasters that picked the Behmor sample #5 over Counter Culture's sample #2. It was a lighter roast and I thought it captured the varietal characteristics of a Yirgacheffe. Others preferred the higher body and superior balance of Counter Culture's rendition.

Closing Comments:

I expected it would be difficult to discern the different roasts, but it turned out to be easy: Of the five samples from the Behmor, only two were drinkable. I will defer to Mike for an explanation of how the samples were roasted.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by lparsons21 on Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:48 pm

Interesting results. Thanks for doing this. I for one, can hardly wait to see what the profiles of the Behmor roasts that were not good.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by mike on Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:21 am

Sorry, my doggone post got eaten last night, and I had to go to bed. Sick as a dog here.

SO....... here is the scoop. I'll pull out my notes later, but the critical mapping for you guys to understand is that the letter labels were also randomized, and didn't sequentially indicate the profile.

Coffee 5 was by coincidence P5, and coffee 4 was P1.

If all other things were equal, before the experiment I would have expected some sort of trend of preference based on profile shape. Seeing the two most extreme profiles in the #1 and #3 positions suggests that the profile on 8oz batches is NOT a significant factor.

I had to keep my mouth shut after the roast phase, because the times to 1c on all the profiles really didn't vary by much more than 2 minutes, and every roast was in a reasonable range. Also, it was impossible to get each of the samples to the exact same roast level because the Behmor has such a long coast on the cool and there is no way to probe the bean mass for temperature. So, variations in final roast level almost surely drowned out any subtle differences between the profiles.

As I explained to Dan though, the purpose of the experiment was to see if we could reproduce any of the really poor results, especially baked beans, correlated to selection of profile. And, at least in this experiment, I don't believe that profile did turn out to be significant. I do think there is some theoretical basis to say that P2 and P1 are probably the better profiles on the machine.

With this experiment behind me and re-reading a lot of the posts here and at CG, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the much more significant factor is charge load size. Which to some people is going to be obvious because 21 minutes to 1c for a 1lb load is NOT in a reasonable range. And under those conditions, profile might be a factor of some magnitude, but the charge load remains the critical one.

The next experiment will obviously be to do loads of 4oz, 8oz and 16oz under the same profile, and blind taste them. If we can reproduce bad roasts, and they correlate to increased batch size, then we have it and it simply becomes an understood limitation of the Behmor.

The other limitation that became really glaring during this test is the difficulty in reproducing roast levels or hitting a specific one due to the coast and limited ability to observe the bean mass temps/etc. In using the Behmor you've got to be a little bit tolerant of not being able to exactly hit your desired finish, or be willing to do at least one experimental load into 2c so that you can note the time periods and approximate when you want to finish your real load. And for $300, I can live with that.

I'll probably think of more later, but that's the critical stuff I think guys.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by JonR10 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:52 am

mike wrote:Coffee 5 was by coincidence P5, and coffee 4 was P1.

This is the shocker for me :shock:

But that's why they play the game, right?


Thanks to Mike for organizing, et al. for participating.....
A very enlightening experiment!

-Jon
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by HB on Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:15 am

mike wrote:Coffee 5 was by coincidence P5, and coffee 4 was P1.

What surprised me is how NOT "plug and play" easy these home roasters must be. The cupping quality of the Behmor roasted coffee was all over the map -- three out of five were unacceptable. On the other hand, it was only one test and there could be operator error in play. Now that we have the format down, we can run another test any Friday that Mike feels like it.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by mike on Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:51 am

HB wrote:What surprised me is how NOT "plug and play" easy these home roasters must be. The cupping quality of the Behmor roasted coffee was all over the map -- three out of five were unacceptable. On the other hand, it was only one test and there could be operator error in play. Now that we have the format down, we can run another test any Friday that Mike feels like it.


Yep, and by operator error you want to include my difficulties with getting the roast levels consistent, feel free. Some of those roasts came out really light.

One of the original premises was that I wanted to keep the final roast level to City+ so that roast would not obscure any subtleties. The side effect was that I lost the "marker" of hearing the beginning of second crack you have with darker roast targets, and as a result trying to hit City+ across 5 different profiles was a crapshoot at best.

Again though, if there was any trend relative to profile type, I'd worry more, but it was pretty clear to me that at 8oz loads profile type was not a highly significant factor.

I'm open to suggestions on how to do the charge load experiment.

As much as I'd like to do the 3 charge loads under both P1 and P5, that is a lot of time and a lot of coffee to waste. I'm leaning toward P1 since there seems to be less controversy over that profile than the others, and experts like Tom at SM also back using that profile. I think we also need to adopt a darker roast level so that we have the marker of second crack and more consistency in finish roast level. I'm thinking I'll stop the roaster on the first few cracks of second. That should eliminate some of the unwanted variables. I also want to get Agtron readings (exterior and spread) on them to see any correlation between those, roast length, and taste/preference.

Anything else I missed guys?
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by lparsons21 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:29 am

HB wrote:I was among the tasters that picked the Behmor sample #5 over Counter Culture's sample #2. It was a lighter roast and I thought it captured the varietal characteristics of a Yirgacheffe. Others preferred the higher body and superior balance of Counter Culture's rendition.


This is something I observed in my early test roasts. A Sidamo roast that ended up lighter than planned turned out to be one of the best Sidamo roasts I had ever had. All the nuance was there. Usually the berry note doesn't develop for a few days after the roast and then dies off in a very few days. With the one done on the Behmor, the note was fully there the next day and lasted about 6 days.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by RapidCoffee on Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:34 pm

HB wrote:What surprised me is how NOT "plug and play" easy these home roasters must be. The cupping quality of the Behmor roasted coffee was all over the map -- three out of five were unacceptable.


Two really big surprises for me:

:shock: #1: The bar is so low. Three of five unacceptable? If I had to toss 60% of my home roasts, quite frankly, I'd quit home roasting in a New York minute.

:shock: #2: The bar is so high. One of the Behmor roasts was judged superior to a Counter Culture roast. If 20% of my home roasts were on par with CCC, one of the best commercial specialty coffee roasters in the biz, I'd be in home roaster heaven!

I do not have a Behmor, but I've been roasting with a small electric drum roaster (AeroRost plus variac) for the past three years. These results confirm my experience: it's possible for the home roaster to achieve true excellence using low end equipment, but it takes practice and a bit of luck. Drum roasters in particular make it hard to monitor the roast visually (or by temperature probe), so consistency will always be an issue. And no matter what roaster you use, home roasting will never be a "set it and forget it" activity.

Thanks to all involved for taking the time and effort to run this test. I look forward to more experimentation with this new home roaster.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by woodchuck on Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:15 pm

John, I don't think it was a question of the bar being too low or too high. We selected the roasts we liked the least and moved the rest to the next round. We could have used the same model on a number of commercial roasts and in the end we would still have a loser each round. In terms of besting a commercial roaster. I think some people just liked the taste of the lighter roast better. Personally I enjoyed the darker roast from CCC. I think commerical roasters differentiate themselves from the home roasters in repeatability as much as taste. I know I enjoy CCC's coffees one because they taste good and two because I always know what I'm getting.

Cheers

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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by RapidCoffee on Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:43 pm

woodchuck wrote:John, I don't think it was a question of the bar being too low or too high. We selected the roasts we liked the least and moved the rest to the next round. We could have used the same model on a number of commercial roasts and in the end we would still have a loser each round.


I'm just responding to Dan's descriptions of the Behmor roasts: "earthy, flat, bitter, wet hay", "of the five samples from the Behmor, only two were drinkable", "three out of five were unacceptable". That gives a much stronger (negative) impression than your relatively mild comment.

So... what's it gonna be, guys? 3 of 5 were unacceptable, or all were OK but you had to pick a loser each round?
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by woodchuck on Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:50 pm

John, if I remember correctly (and old age does play a role here :) ), I would have tossed two of the roasts as being way too grassy and thin for me. The rest would have been acceptable. One disclaimer though, I am an espresso drinker. Tasting coffee's without being squeezed through a portafilter is pretty new ground for me.

Cheers

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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by mike on Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:46 pm

Just a quick comment guys, be sure to note some of the above comments.

Evaluation based on preference of roast level is ultimately not valid within the confines of this experiment.

It is telling however that I was unable to get consistent roast levels in order to remove that variable from the equation, and a good secondary learning. Evaluating ability to achieve consistent roast levels would actually be another interesting experiment, and something that could be measured numerically using the Agtron. But, I think it is pretty well accepted that based on the type of roaster the Behmor is, consistency is going to require a heck of a lot of practice and trial runs - it's just a shortcoming of the type.

In terms of primary objective, it appears that at a gross level we were not able to establish any strong correlation between preference and roast profile. So, in regard to settling any debates over what is the primary factor in poor quality Behmor roasts (esp baking), at 8oz load level profiles do not appear to be the primary factor.

We'll move on to evaluation of different charge loads next, and hopefully have better luck in eliminating different roast levels as a complicating variable.

Dan: I'm going to be tied up Friday, but if you could pull 2lb of the same Yirg from the CCC stocks and toss it on my front porch, I could probably roast next week.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by JonR10 on Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:21 pm

mike wrote:It is telling however that I was unable to get consistent roast levels in order to remove that variable from the equation, and a good secondary learning.

Perhaps this would have been easier if it had been possible to choose a roast level that was more readily distinguishable in the roasting process (for example, hitting "cool" right after the first C2 snippet).

It seems like an almost impossible task anyway - trying to repeat a consistent finish roast level on each of the 5 different profiles even though you may not have had any practice at all with some of those profiles. This is especially true of you are shooting for a roast level that's not easy to hit in the first place....



So, I can't speak for others, but I have found it very easy to reproduce my better results with the Behmor roaster. I also find it does a better job for me with the lighter roasts then my SCTO setup. The lighter Behmor roasts seem to bring out the subtle nuances of certain beans. I'd say I have reached a point where it would be quite rare to have an "unacceptable" Behmor roast.

OTOH, the SCTO is better (for me) for roasting bigger quantities faster because I can easily get a whole pound to C1 as fast as 8 minutes (or stretch that ramp to 12+ minutes). And cooling is separate so I can set up and start a second roast as the first one is cooling.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by DigMe on Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:24 pm

mike wrote:Dan: I'm going to be tied up Friday, but if you could pull 2lb of the same Yirg from the CCC stocks and toss it on my front porch, I could probably roast next week.


Yeah, me too.

8)

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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by HB on Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:04 pm

JonR10 wrote:Perhaps this would have been easier if it had been possible to choose a roast level that was more readily distinguishable in the roasting process (for example, hitting "cool" right after the first C2 snippet).

Agreed, we need to reset, e.g., establishing a consistently good roast at one profile and one weight before adding variables like different profiles and charges.

JonR10 wrote:OTOH, the SCTO is better (for me) for roasting bigger quantities faster because I can easily get a whole pound to C1...

For those unfamiliar with homeroaster-speak, I think SCTO = Stir Crazy/Turbo Oven and C1 = first crack, C2 = second crack.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by cannonfodder on Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:29 pm

I wish I could play. I would run a couple batches through my HotTop as a counter point of comparison. When is CCC going to open a shop in Dayton? I know someone that would be interested in a GM position there.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by DigMe on Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:59 pm

cannonfodder wrote:When is CCC going to open a shop in Dayton?


Probably around the same time they open one in Waco.

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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by CremaKatz on Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:05 am

HB wrote:For those unfamiliar with homeroaster-speak, I think SCTO = Stir Crazy/Turbo Oven and C1 = first crack, C2 = second crack.


I figured out the C1/C2 myself, since I do roast at home.
But even with the explanation, I have no idea what
Stir Crazy/Turbo Oven means...

I'd be curious to hear how well the Behmor handled chaff
during these roasts. Not sure how much chaff there is
in the Harfusa Yirgacheffe. The main appeal of getting
a roaster like the Behmor for me is that it would catch
chaff, so I could roast indoors.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by lparsons21 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:10 am

It does a very good job of catching chaff, much better than any other home roaster I have tried.

All of it stays inside the roaster unless you open the door during operation. I roast indoors and have found that I can roast any size load up to about Full City with almost zero smoke. 1/2# is OK for a darker roast. But you will get the smell in the house. Not a problem for me as I like it.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by miKe mcKoffee on Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:01 am

RapidCoffee wrote: And no matter what roaster you use, home roasting will never be a "set it and forget it" activity.
Agree no current off the shelf home roasting appliance is "set it and forget it" with any hope of consistency. However, Jeffrey Pawlin's modified CCR HotTop is extremely consistent and totally set it and forget it except for turning off the cooling cycle. In fact have two of them and running two batches of the same bean same profile simultanesouly usually end seconds apart. Roasts virtually identical appearance whole bean and ground and in the cup. Run the same profile same bean get the same results time after time. Of course such automation and consistency didn't come cheap! Other's have made similar automation modifications to home roasters with similar resulting ease of use and repeatablility.

I'm really not surprised by the results. Long known it's easy to turn beans brown but how they get to the same degree of roast, even if in the same time frame, makes a huge difference in the cup. Why long ago modified my then Caffe Rosto roasting for independent variable heater and fan control with thermometer to bean mass so could profile the roasts.

The Behmor is a great starter roaster at a great price IMO. But it's just a roasting tool which must be learned to be used to get it's maximum potential within it's limited flexibility.
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