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Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test - Page 3

Discuss roast levels and profiles for espresso, equipment for roasting coffee.

Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by mike on Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:48 pm

OK, MC, just a few quick thoughts.

First, I find espresso to my preferred level of roast to be no problem at all on the Behmor. I use P2, and hit cool once 2c starts to roll. I've not heard many complaints about getting to espresso roast levels with good results, the problems seem to be with harder beans, large roast loads and possibly long profiles.

In my opinion, Brazil is just way too one dimensional to be useful for doing the kind of testing that I want to do in order to find nuances. But I definitely have not seen any problems with soft beans, even using P1 or P2. I personally don't believe in the usefulness or necessity of P3-P5 quite yet.

As far as timing into 1c on P2, you want to cut the heat just before so that you don't enter 1c with too much energy. The only way I can see stalling a load into 1c cutting 30s before is if the load is too large - I won't do more than 8-10oz with this machine. The danger of cutting at 1c is that you can sometimes have too much heat built up in the system, and knock the beans straight into 2c like P1 can.

Still hope to hear from folks that have significant and positive hands-on experience with P3, 4 or 5 here to give me direction that will allow one of those profiles to show its best
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by lparsons21 on Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:47 pm

I tend to use either P1 or P4, depending on speed of roast.

Here's what I've been doing with P4 for my Bolivian, Colombians and Timor Maubesse

8 oz load
P4, 1#, D, then use - key to take time down to 15 minutes
Hit start
After start, I add 6 +'s

Sometimes I have to add a plus or two as I want to get fully into 2nd crack. I start closely monitoring the roast when it starts 1st crack.

I end up with a very nice Full City with full body which is what I think these beans deserve.

What I've found is that P4 is very good for those coffees that want lots of body over nuance. I think, but don't know that you could easily take this profile and modify the +'s and -'s a bit and do up to 12 oz loads easily to Full City.

8 oz loads are great for me as I can have 3 different coffees ready to brew at any time and still be plenty fresh. Bigger loads just aren't advantageous to me with the exception of when I do some roasting to give away to friends that do drip.

For those 1 lb. loads, I'm usually not getting further than City+ using the P1 profiles. My drip drinking friends all say that the beans are wonderful.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by mike on Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:11 pm

What time do you get to 1c with P4?

I am OK with using P4, but I'd like to put 1c into a reasonable time frame. I want to achieve a 1c time in the 10-12 minute time frame, maybe a tiny bit longer if anyone has any first hand experience that tolerating a longer time to 1c than normal is advantageous. Help me set the initial starting time for a 10oz load to get a reasonable time to 1c and I think we have it.

For what it is worth, the settings don't really mean anything except initial start time in units of minutes. I then just jam out the time to something easy for me to count down from (ex. 20 minutes). I don't have the foggiest idea of how much time effect the weight/a-b-c-d/+/- buttons do except I mash them until I get the times I want. In the end, the only thing the beans care about is the amount of heat and time.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by DigMe on Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:06 pm

One profile that I've only just started experimenting with is P5 but with a very, very low start time...say 5 to 6 minutes. I'll do, say, 8oz, 1lb, P5 6minutes START. Then I'll add a bunch of time back on up to say 20 minutes.

I'm thinking this will serve to give me a nice 4 to 5 minute drying period before the real heat kicks in. After that it's just like using P1 for the rest of the roast. I haven't come to any conclusions yet...still just starting to work with this kind of profile on the Behmor.

Would be curious to see what everyone things of the results though.

brad
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by lparsons21 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:42 pm

mike wrote:What time do you get to 1c with P4?

I am OK with using P4, but I'd like to put 1c into a reasonable time frame. I want to achieve a 1c time in the 10-12 minute time frame, maybe a tiny bit longer if anyone has any first hand experience that tolerating a longer time to 1c than normal is advantageous. Help me set the initial starting time for a 10oz load to get a reasonable time to 1c and I think we have it.

For what it is worth, the settings don't really mean anything except initial start time in units of minutes. I then just jam out the time to something easy for me to count down from (ex. 20 minutes). I don't have the foggiest idea of how much time effect the weight/a-b-c-d/+/- buttons do except I mash them until I get the times I want. In the end, the only thing the beans care about is the amount of heat and time.


Depending on which bean, of course, but I usually get the 1st snap of 1st crack at about 12 minutes into the roast, sometimes as much as 13 minutes. When I compare a roast done similarly with the Gene to the Behmor w/P4, the differences are slight but noticeable. The Behmor being a bit richer at the bottom (body?). I'm not noticing a baked flavor at all. Once it goes into 1st crack, it is steady at developing the crack cycle, but it is slower than I was getting with the Gene. No stall, just a longer time from start to end of 1st crack. Same goes for 2nd crack, once it starts it keeps going, but slower than some other roasters.

The settings do mean something besides the initial start time. When you hit 'start' the profile is set to the time that is on the counter at the start. If you add time after the 'start' is hit, then it adds time to the end of the roast, IOW after the heat cycles that the selected profile does, or at least that was the way it was explained to me.
Lloyd
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by mike on Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:44 am

lparsons21 wrote:Depending on which bean, of course, but I usually get the 1st snap of 1st crack at about 12 minutes into the roast, sometimes as much as 13 minutes.

The settings do mean something besides the initial start time. When you hit 'start' the profile is set to the time that is on the counter at the start. If you add time after the 'start' is hit, then it adds time to the end of the roast, IOW after the heat cycles that the selected profile does, or at least that was the way it was explained to me.


I am quite familiar with how the profiles and times work. The complete time is not critical since you know the final phase is what is being lengthened. The start time is sufficient to determine where the transitions will be.

Anyway, here is what I'm going to do. I'm going to select P4 as the ramped profile choice since Tom at SM's tends to like that better than P3 or P5. I'm going to set the initial time to 10 minutes. This will give the ramp during the drying phase for 6 minutes, and then drive into first crack.

This is not terribly different from what I used to do on my popper where I would ramp heat hard for 2 minutes, trim back up to 6 minutes, raise heat to drive into first crack, cut back to stretch between 1c and 2c, and then drive to finish. I do not know the bean absorption rates in this roaster to know if the P4 ramp would be helpful during drying phase, but I do know the P2 heat decrease phase is helpful for many beans. Just more reason why it would be superb to have manual control over the heat levels.

At this point there isn't enough time to roast and taste at CCC this week, so I'll try to do the three roasts next week.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by MellowCat on Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:40 pm

I second that - about manual control over the heat - rather than a pre-programmed cycle that can't be adjusted according to the roast/beans at hand. On-the-fly adjustment is what you need to roast coffee well. Perhaps this was not in the design criteria for the roaster. Indeed, you hear a lot about 'set it and forget it' regarding the Behmor, perhaps to catch a larger (and less knowledgeable) segment of the market.

In anycase, I know there is good potential for feedback with the Behmor, perhaps we should be looking to posing our questions to a central place for feedback into further generations of the roaster?

And thanks again for the good work Mike!
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by DigMe on Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:54 pm

I used a P5 with my last roast - 8oz load of Idido Misty Valley. I set it at 1lb, P5, 5:00 and then pressed Start. Then I kicked the time up to about 20:00 minutes. This gave me a light drying cycle before kicking in to full power. 1st crack started at around 15:00 if I remember correctly (sorry, I'm real lazy about keeping accurate logs) and I believe I pulled it right before 2nd crack started somewhere around 18:00 to end with a late City+ or early FC. This resulted in an excellent cup of Idido that tastes just like it should. Honeyed fruitiness with a faint hint of maybe vanilla-ish flavor. I was very pleased.

brad
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by MellowCat on Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:20 pm

Thanks for the profile Brad.

Hypothetical question: if you'd wanted to shorten the first crack time down from 15 minutes to something between 11 and 13:30, would one of the less gentle profiles achieve this? Like either P3 or P4? (I mean other than reducing the load size of course)

I've yet to try any of P3 to P5, but they are next on the list.
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by DigMe on Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:32 am

MellowCat wrote:Thanks for the profile Brad.

Hypothetical question: if you'd wanted to shorten the first crack time down from 15 minutes to something between 11 and 13:30, would one of the less gentle profiles achieve this? Like either P3 or P4? (I mean other than reducing the load size of course)


Yes. I've done the same with those profiles with good results.

brad
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by IMAWriter on Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:40 am

mike wrote:
With this experiment behind me and re-reading a lot of the posts here and at CG, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the much more significant factor is charge load size. Which to some people is going to [snipped]

Hi Mike...just stumbled upon this very interesting, if older thread. If I may comment on your statement above.
As some here may know, I was one of, if not the first of Joe's beta testers....I actually had 2 different incarnations...similar other than a change in basket cosmetics...one change I actually instigated...sort of "my job"...not to praise, but to evaluate honestly. I had nearly 9 months of real world drama before the roaster actually made it into distribution.
To get to the point, one thing I've stressed here and on CG is how sensitive this roaster can be to lower than necessary voltage. Never have I had a 1# (by green weight) roast go longer than 16.5 minutes to first crack...the present production model is even faster...my even my P4 roasts beat 15 minutes most of the time...a 21 minute to first crack would indicate an inadequate voltage. 120v from the outlet is preferred, 116v just adequate...sort of like a 20 foot extension cord effect on a popper.
Still,your statement regarding green weight per roast certainly rings true for me. Truth is, my favorite...and most consistent roasts results occur when I keep the load to 14oz, using the 1# setting....1/2# roasts seem to take care of themselves, other than a sometimes "look out here comes 2nd" occurrence... :lol:
Cordially,
Rob J
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by danetrainer on Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:53 pm

I have roasted 4 batches with the B1600 since getting it two weeks ago, all on P1.
I would like to do some roasts in P2, where I can stretch the time between 1C & 2C.
Is there a simple way, or a chart that I can calculate the Profile temp change to
minutes when the P2 profile drops off? I have been roasting 10oz batches in P1
and my 1c is coming at 10:40 to 10:50. Mike, you suggested a 30 second lead time
to drop of temp...so I am looking at maybe 10:10 or 10:20. Any suggestions?
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by mike on Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:51 am

danetrainer wrote:I have roasted 4 batches with the B1600 since getting it two weeks ago, all on P1.
I would like to do some roasts in P2, where I can stretch the time between 1C & 2C.
Is there a simple way, or a chart that I can calculate the Profile temp change to
minutes when the P2 profile drops off? I have been roasting 10oz batches in P1
and my 1c is coming at 10:40 to 10:50. Mike, you suggested a 30 second lead time
to drop of temp...so I am looking at maybe 10:10 or 10:20. Any suggestions?


You are almost exactly where my beans usually are in time. As long as you get it close you'll be OK in my experience. I set P2 to an initial time of 14 or 15 minutes, and that works out about right (dropoff around 10-ish minutes)
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Link to "Behmor 1600 coffee roaster - group taste test"by DigMe on Wed May 07, 2008 3:14 pm

danetrainer wrote:Is there a simple way, or a chart that I can calculate the Profile temp change to
minutes when the P2 profile drops off?


The Behmor manual includes graphs that show the percentage of heat to percentage of elapsed time. So that plus a calculator should serve you well in answering that question.

brad
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