hperry wrote:So in concluding I'll rephrase and ask the question again. In the hands of an experienced Barista, using the coffee and grinder of his choice could this Barista produce a better tasting shot using one machine over the other?
No - either would work given the "experienced barista" and a "grinder of his choice" if it was a Mazzer, Macap or Versalab. The experienced barista would have options that would produce glorious coffee from either. The machines that you've used probably don't provide you the requisite reference to know what you want.
Right now, with the purchase price you are proposing I'd research and buy as much grinder as I could afford and start with any espresso machine that is consistently well reviewed and is under $1,000. After a year or so playing with it you will have a reference point for your next purchase. I absolutely did not know when I bought the Bezerra BZ40 with a rotary pump and plumbed it in, that my "best" machine (right now) would be a 30 year old commercial lever. That conclusion came from considerable experience with the Bezerra (a very good machine) and wise counsel from these forums.
As I said in my previous post, knowing what I know now I would have bought the Versalab grinder first - that will probably not need to be replaced and makes more difference than any variations in machines. In its current form, there is no answer to your question.
You obviously have more experience with this stuff than I gave you credit for. Sorry.
Let's take these things separately; for the grinder, you could certainly keep what you have for now; lots of people who make good shots swear by the Rocky. I have never owned one, although I have played around with a couple that friends have owned. The positive about the Rocky is that you already own it, and with some effort you can get excellent shots out of it. The negative is that the build quality, especially of the doser, isn't too great, and the burrs are small and wear out relatively quickly from what I have seen posted. In addition, the adjustability is not at the same level as a true commercial grinder or even one of the cheaper but less well constructed connicals, like the Innova, Lux, and Vanelli. Speaking for myself, I would not consider a Versalab, especially if it was going to be used for anything other than cupping or someone who wants to constantly change the coffee they are drinking. Jim Schulman finds it useful for cupping but I think he would find it unpleasant to use as an everyday grinder. I know of at least one other alt.coffee type owner who rarely uses his at all. Your wife would undoubtedly hate it. If you want a connical, the buzz is that Cimbali is coming out with a new one that will cost around $750. To my knowledge it is not yet available in N. America. I have a couple of Cimbali Jr. grinders that I'm happy with, but then I'm not constantly changing blends and beans. Jim Schulman, who recently visited me, found these Cimbalis inconvenient for changing coffees as often as he would like to.
For the espresso machine, there are scads of machines out there. Important things to know are how high is your budget, whether you are handy, how much room you have for this stuff, and whether you are a fan of bulletproof high end machinery. If you like big well constructed machines, you might want to consider a full on commercial machine; these can often be obtained in the secondhand market for less than the semi-commercial grade equipment you are looking at. If you like to work with you hands and have basic electrical and plumbing skills, you could pick up a used one group commercial machine and restore it yourself. This is something that many home users have done and in the end you will end up with a very high quality piece of equipment, assuming you can fix it up. The same applies to used commercial grinders; often, these need only a new set of burrs and you will have essentially a new, high end grinder, other than for any cosmetic defects that may be present. It is obvious, however, that when buying used commercial equipment you know what state it is in when you buy it and that you have the skills to fix it up. Sometimes dealers get such pieces of equipment in trade and restore it themselves, then selling the stuff as used but restored at a significant discount compared to new stuff. I am a fan of Cimbali equipment, especially the older style vibe pump operated stuff that dates back several years, before they overloaded the machines with electronics and autofill. This one, now ten years old and significantly modified, sits in my kitchen and you'd have to pry it out of my cold dead hands
Unless you live in a major metropolitan area with a good dealer nearby, you are probably going to end up having to work on the machines eventually, yourself, anyway, so a restoration job, if you are up to it, might be a good and moneysaving option.
I personally would not limit myself to the machines you are considering. The best bang for the buck in a new machine is probably going to be a higher quality e-61 HX machine. There are scads of them out there, the parts are readily available with few proprietary so repairs will be cheaper, and they are fairly easy to work on from what I have read. The Brewtus in its stock configuration is probably not going to be any more temperature stable than would an E-61, especially if you make more than one shot at a time.
Good luck,
ken
