Astoria 1 group renewal

[Robbert]

Hi all.

I have bought a one group Astoria commercial semi automatic.
This is the photo that was used to advertise it. It was sold as a running machine
and I tested it to see it worked more or less before buying it.

I was quite interested in taking the machine apart,
I never intended to really use the clearly very dirty machine without a renewal.

My main source of inspiration to do this have been these reports,
Where nearly identical machines are taken apart and put back together.

http://www.home-barista.com/forums/laurentis-rejuvination-project-moved-from-alt-coffee-t1413.html#11814
As well as
http://www.home-barista.com/forums/rebuilding-single-group-astoria-lever-t1416.html

Opening up the machine there is hardly any outside scale.
I think that the machine has been taken apart/ serviced before as not all
screws that are to hold the body panels in place are present.

I have no idea when it was built, though the brown colour would suggest some time
in the 80s, any ideas on this anyone?

what I noticed is that both the water inlet and brew group solenoid are not grounded.
is this normal, or should I ground it when building it back up.

I have ordered some components from coffee XXL today,
mostly O rings, a new vacuum breaker, and a bottomless pf.

So far I have taken and put back together the boiler fill system.
No real surprises here, except the sight glass, in which the indicating ball
is held suspended in mid air by a layer of scale in the glass.

At the moment I am taking apart the brew system.
The dispersion plate just above the shower screen shows that
this is a good idea: of the eight holes in this plate,
all but two are blocked up by crud.
I have damaged the nut holding the brew group solenoid coil in place.
once i have taken more parts off I will try to get it off again.

My plan for the machine is to:
- replace most rubbers, seals and gaskets taking apart a bit of the machine at a time.
- Get it cleaned- it is very very dirty
- get it working again and replace the wires where necessary
- repaint the brown body panels, maybe with a dark red colour
- insulate the boiler as the machine will be used in a domestic setting.

Optional and vague plans
- do something with preinfusion, a separate switch, or a delay mechanism
- resurface the stainless body panels.
- make a timer
- change the Americano wand to a shorter one.

Any suggestions are welcome.

[Robbert]

The good and the bad

The good:
today all the parts I ordered online arrived, I only ordered them 4 days ago and haven't even paid yet
the bottomless pf is a beauty.
all the parts were there.

The bad:

the arrival of the order made me re focus on taking the machine apart rather than focus on the finishing of
the panels. I just broke two of the four bolts that attach the grouphead to the frame and boiler.
As I am a mech eng student I will be able to find the taps, but I was hoping to finish the whole thing before
I left my parents home to go back to uni in a weeks time.

the ends of the bolts are still in the boiler, which makes getting them out much harder.

I guess this puts paid to my idea of rebuilding the machine bit by bit and leaving the boiler in.
sigh.

as the top of the bolts show, these have failed a long time ago, they were also the ones with
the most scale.

any suggestions as to how to get the bolts out? I cannot really access them from the boiler side?
drill though them and retap? heat them up?

[HairyCannonball]

Put some Kroil on the rusted in bolts. The stuff is like magic most of the time. Is the remaining part of the bolt of sufficient diameter to drill and use an easyout?

Tim

[djmonkeyhater]

New guy here. Excited to see this thread as I just acquired 130lbs of Italian metal and Bakelite.

I picked it up in rural Washington State, USA. We have a relatively prolific coffee culture here, for lack of a better word, and this machine served a good chunk of it's life in some sort of roadside espresso shack. I can only imagine how many "Marionberry Mocha Monster" drinks it made. (e.g. - http://www.bigfootjava.com/menu.html) I guess that the good part of this proliferation is that there are frequently Carimali and Simonelli 2-group machines at yard sales or on Craigslist for $500. (e.g. - http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/for/406643890.html)

Anyway, i got it home yesterday. I'll keep digging and asking for advice.

[jesawdy]

Put some Kroil on the rusted in bolts. The stuff is like magic most of the time. Is the remaining part of the bolt of sufficient diameter to drill and use an easyout?

Tim

To clarify, KROIL is a penetrating oil (see link). I haven't used it, but it looks promising. "Easyouts" are screw extractors (see link). Another potential fix may be a Heli-Coil (link), but my experiences with "easyouts" and Heli-Coils involved picking up the phone and calling for the on call maintenance guy in a manufacturing job.

[jesawdy]

New guy here....

Wesley, welcome to HB. This one makes me cringe.... you might check out that KROIL or suffer the same fate as Robbert.... (BTW, I noticed you can a get the aerosol AeroKroil for free with any order if you click the right links).

[djmonkeyhater]

CAN NOT BELIEVE MY LUCK WITH THIS THING!

Every bolt came off with no trouble. Every single one. Some were no more than finger tight on the boiler cap. Still in awe. My background for this is in bicycle and automotive repair and all I imagined included air tools, cutting torches, EZ Outs, WD-40 and hacksaws.

But not tonight. I need to buy a lottery ticket or something. Save for the horrendously complicated and convoluted pipe that seems to carry the water supply into the HX (goes into the top of the grouphead near the frame) everyone came off inside of 20 minutes. I used some lightweight oil and a propane torch to get that supply line off. For about 20 minutes I wondered if replacing it would cost more than I have into the machine but off it came.

THESE ARE PICTURES OF SOMEONE WINNING!


There was water in the machine when I got it. Crossed my fingers as it sloshed out putting it in the van. BUT NOT TO WORRY, I'M WINNING TODAY! It had been sitting for three years and it flowed out clean and odorless. It has cobwebs, was not maintained and sat in the corner of an unfinished farmhouse basement. FOR THREE YEARS! All this after making Gingerbread Snickerdoodle Latte's in a roadside tool shed and the water comes out clean and odorless.

I continue to win. Maybe some 1 carat diamonds will be inside the grouphead.



I don't know enough to know if this is bad or not. We have generally good water in Western Washington so I'm guessing it's not too bad.



Sweet craftsmanship on the inside of the boiler for the HX entry. This is when you realize the Italians made it and not the Swiss, Germans or Japanese.



4 bolts to get the grouphead off. I was wondering if I should clean the machine before pressing it into service but I'm not wondering any more.



This was the crux move of the day for you rock climbers out there. This brass tube is about 14" long has 3 or 4 fittings cobbled onto it and serves what I think is the water supply into the HX. So I'll probably need it unless I'm just foaming milk and making Cup 'O Noodles with a 7L boiler machine. I put this oil on it and went to dinner. Unable to control myself, I kept fiddling with it. Each time I tried to break it free, it would start to wind up the whole length of the tube and I could almost see the ripples forming. There is a secondary coupling underneath it that I was able to fiddle with using two open-end wrenches and it finally broke free. It looks like it has been re-brazed.

Seriously, I can not lose with this thing. Something certainly will go wrong. It has to.



Why would I need to clean this? It's dialed. It looks just like a Subaru head after being run with a leak for a while.

Now hold your breath - the corrosion appears to be unfathomably shallow. It's all surface rust as far as I can tell. Any more luck like this and this machine will be my talisman. If you see a man wearing an Astoria Lady on a necklace, you'll know it's me off for a job interview.



Good stuff here. I'm sure my Kalani Espresso Blend would take on a whole new set of subtleties by flowing past this.



A bolt on the top of the grouphead. Houses what appears to be a small particulate filter that is kinda cooked.



Again, came apart with no trouble. Seems like some cleaning, some new rubber bits and I'll be back in the game.



The shower screen is pretty clogged and the rubber bushing that the portafilter seats against is super angry and not wanting to play by the rules. Maybe this is where I lose momentum.


QUESTION:

I have access to an ultrasonic parts cleaner at work. Has anyone used this for cleaning machine parts? Since most of this is metal, I'm not worried about it "soaking in" or anything. I was mostly wondering if it will address scale. I'm going to try it with some smaller parts and see how it works.

Anyway, the dude who started this thread might start crying but not to worry because what you have seen in this posting is not normal and is not to be expected. I cut a wire in my attic two weeks ago and it killed lighting in half of the rooms in my 100 year old house. I spent 16 hours in the attic diagnosing knob and tube wiring remnants while lying on 40 year old insulation that is covered in mouse crap wearing a respirator. My 3 and 6 year old boys will soon have a pull chain to turn on their overhead light because I can't get to the switch wires. And when I make the pull chain long enough for them to reach it, I'm sure they'll swing on it until it breaks. Maybe this is payback.

WES

[jesawdy]

QUESTION:

I have access to an ultrasonic parts cleaner at work. Has anyone used this for cleaning machine parts? Since most of this is metal, I'm not worried about it "soaking in" or anything. I was mostly wondering if it will address scale. I'm going to try it with some smaller parts and see how it works.

Wes,

Paul Pratt of Espresso Restorations says the ultrasonic cleaner is the way to go. I believe he does a detergent cleaning first, followed by a warmed descaling solution soak. You should have that all looking pretty if you have access to that bath.

I loved the electrical story.

[Robbert]

I ordered a set of easy outs, that should help get the bolts out.
I am trying to loosen them with oil with some rust eating compound.

in the mean time I am trying to remove the steam wand,
as it gets in the way of the water glass mounting.

it is the bolt between part 5 and 6 that refuses to bulge.
the tricky bit is that it has to come appart before I can take it
from the machine, and the thread is behind a gasket so I cannot oil it.

the three way solenoid coil is completely rusted to the solenoid.

I am tempted to leave it as it is for the moment, as trying to
remove it will probably destroy the coil and solenoid,
and it was working when I took it off the machine.
it took an amazing amount of force to remove the nut
securing the coil. the coil and body seem to have fused.
I have applied oil and left it for now.

[Paul]

I use an heated ultrasonic bath to clean parts. Really makes short work of descaling small parts. I use a small qty of citric acid and set it running at 50C/30mins. Works best on S/S bits for some reason. Brass doesn't come up as good. Also good for cleaning sightglasses.

[Paul]

forgot to add, I rebuilt an astoria steam valve last week. My solution to your problem was to: remove the valve and bracket from the frame then hold bracket in vice and undo the problem fitting. The valve has two locking tabs that prevent it from rotating in the bracket.

[djmonkeyhater]

Since this project is now affecting my sleep - I'll just post a couple images of today's progress.

Got the steam & water valves out, sight glass almost, lots of crazy shaped brass tubes and the big daddy boiler. Just about everything came out without complaint.



So the boiler seems pretty solid all the way around. Descaling and I think that we are in business.



Frame isn't pretty but it's solid. Hopefully a couple days from a trip to the powder coater.



I have taken an unreal number of images to hopefully keep things straight. There must be a whole generation of Italian men that spent their lives bending copper tubing into complex shapes.



My marking strategy. I was taping them up with little tags but then I remembered I'd be dumping the lot of them into an acidic solution and might need to keep track of them after. So I went digital.



Slid right apart. I did have a little more trouble like Robbert with the getting that flanged nut open but it cracked and spun free on both sides with only WD40 and a good Craftsman open end wrench in some odd metric size.

QUESTION: I've see recommendations for re-wiring machines of this age and my wires are definitely aged and stiff. Anyone got ideas on how to go about getting a wiring diagram? Or just get to taking notes?

WES

[john_K]

Welcome Wes.

Wiring on these machines is really very straight forward. Yours is complicated by the Penn pressure stat and associated electrics. You're going to want to dump that stuff and replace it with a modern pressure stat (or a PID).

I sent you a PM!

john

[cannonfodder]

Rewire. When I rebuilt my two group, I replaced the wires one at a time. Measure, cut, unplug one end, pull it out, unhook the other end and run the new wire. I relocated my wiring and put it all in split loom tubing to keep it all neat and clean.

[djmonkeyhater]

Continuing to make progress.

It's been recommended to me that I remove the "Penn Pressure Stat" and replace it with a new one or a PID. I'm investigating both. Feel free to comment.



Here's a side view showing what I guess to be the components of it in my response back to the advice giver.



Here's a view of the Penn internals. Looks like something from a 1959 Volkswagen.



Here it is all ready to go to the powdercoater. One thing that I need to think about is whether or not to remove a couple of the uglier brackets that are on there for holding the Penn Pressure Stat and it's related boxes. There is also an ugly one for the power cord. I don't want to get it all done and then have some things I want to remove.



Copper bits go into the descaling bath. Citric Acid was the choice.



Love the Italians and their details. This is a bolt and the aluminum washer under it that shows it's a ground. I guess with water and steam and 220 it's not such a bad idea to have a lot of them. It's almost as cool as knowing that the 3-way solenoid is called a LUCIFER.



This is the water level control - I think. It was a guess just looking at where it came from and where it went.



This was the first thing that I took apart where a little spring shot across the basement and could not be found. There's a ball in there and rubber seal. Feel free to tell me what it does and if it's worth keeping.



Here's the wiring harness in it's entirety. I'm going to work on rewiring it as soon as I figure out what the electrics will look like when I am done. I don't trust the clear plastic deal around the switch and may relocate so that it doesn't need to be in a sippy cup to survive. The switch was all coated in crema phlegm when I got it so that's another reason not to keep it near and below the portafilter.

I BROKE THE SIGHT GLASS! I tried and tried not to do it. It needed a new one but it seems like a newbie mistake so I was puzzling for a good 10 minutes on how to get it. I don't think it was possible though. It was really tight in there for the wrenches and I even soaked it overnight in WD40. I think that the crust had bonded it to the rubber washer where I couldn't see and on the top where WD40 wouldn't drip in.

Thanks to everyone for the advice and the offers of help.

WES

[Robbert]

after bending the brackets on the frame quite a bit, I followed the advise
and put a massive open wrench on the body of the steam valve,
and a size 20 metric one on the nut. even then it takes some force.
have started to build the group back up so it can go on the boiler
once the stuck bolts are out. have recieved the easy outs,
not used them yet.

This is the water level control - I think. It was a guess just looking at where it came from and where it went.

that's the two way solenoid that opens and closes the water supply to the boiler, mine had one too.


that's a one way valve I think, there are three of those on my machine,
though two are assosiated with the automatic system, at the gicar flow meter.
http://www.espresso-restorations.com/checkvalves.html
this is what Paul Pratt has to say about them.

I think the mysterious electronics are a relay, though I cannot say for sure,
as mine does not have them. maybe your p stat is not rated for the amount of
amps that the heating element needs, so they put a relay in between.
if you are getting a pid then you will probably get a solid state relay instead.

took all the painted panels, sanded and sprayed them with a base coat.
I also sprayed the white dial behind the water glass just with the base coat,
as that was white anyway. put the waterglass back in the machine,
I ordered two new ones but haven't broken the first replacement.
Those thick rubber bushes make thightning it really funny,
you turn the wrench and all by itself it slowy unturns if you let go.

much better now that the litle black ball is no longer suspended by
a layer of scale in the tube.

the group head with a portafilter. I think I overdid it on the spacers,
it fits, but does not face staight forward. I guess that with some use the
rubber will get compressed and it will be better.

so for today: get the stuck bolts out and respray the cover parts fire truck red.

[djmonkeyhater]

Getting Frustrated with the descaling.

So I dutifully arranged for some citric acid powder and the house mate showed up with 1/2 cup from work. I quickly dissolved it in 2 gallons hot water and tossed in all of the brass and the boiler cap.

Stared, scowled and browbeat the soaking bucket from a stool. Frightened my children with stories of dangerous acids and surfactants. Ate dinner. Watched a boring network show and tapped my feet in the basement. Stared more and went to bed. Woke up and ran downstairs to see if the brass had turned to powder.



NOPE. The pipes were brighter but the black scale was still there. Hmmm. Upon inspection, the pipes mostly look fine. But the boiler cap is not. So I head off to the brewing supply store to get a 1lb of citric acid. Of course the Honda tuning shop that they share a wall with is doing runs on the dyno with a Civic so every 90 seconds or so it becomes impossible to converse while a four cylinder import drag racing motor is run to redline in 4th gear with an open exhaust. Then i get to walk out with a sealed bag of white powder in my hands and wave to the Police car sitting in the lot talking to some other street racers. No arrest so I head home.



Here's the boiler pre-soak. I'm gonna mix-up a stiffer mix of citric acid for this thing. I will be legendary in the annals of descaling tonight. In goes the boiler, HX and group head.



I wait until morning, wear a black t-shirt to celebrate eliminating the scourge of scale from the modern world and see this.



So I mix up a stiffer mix of citric acid. In a smaller container because it can't be legal to use as much as I am using in one county without a concealed weapons permit. It sits in the sun for 4 hours and this is what I get. So I pull it out and start scrubbing. My house mate comes home, sees me walking around in rubber gloves holding this thing and furiously scrubbing it and says "I don't think most passers by will assume that is an Astoria HX from a distance. You might do that inside."



30 minutes and $10 later the farm kid in me comes out.

I'll let you know how it works out.

WES

[djmonkeyhater]

Using the farm repair logic "don't force it, use a bigger hammer" I went 2 parts water and 1 part Muriatic Acid. At first I was dancing around the stuff like it was spent uranium fuel rods but then I remembered my grandfather used to clean the woodstove with it each Fall with a rag.

So I was reasonably careful, I'll liken it to the precautions one would take when cleaning the oven with Easy Off. Two hours later, here's the result.





Halfway through, the housemate came back by. He's a high-school chemistry teacher and a good resource on stuff like this. He asked if I got some bubbles, I said I did, he said that's CO2. He reminded me it's all about solubility and concentration so if it slows way down, I need to "up the moles" because the scale was neutralizing the acid. That means make it stronger in lab talk.

So after three hours, I added pulled the parts out, took photos, scrubbed them with a brush and some steel wool and added some more juice.

WES

[cannonfodder]

Heat, use boiling hot water, it accelerates the process but be careful. That much soaking, you will eat away at the edges of the brass bolts (and threads). When all else fails a little elbow grease will go a long way, and a touch of scale residue wont hurt anything, especially if it means eating the threads up on your fittings trying to get that last spot off.

[xtophr]

I am enjoying this thread immensely as I have virtualy the same machine. My mental notes node is copiously busy. I am about to start with it, so all of this great info is really timely. Here's my old thread:

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...machine-t3319.html