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Astoria 1 group renewal - Page 3

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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by Paul on Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:29 pm

hi robbert,

yes, use the manual fill valve to fill boiler before turning on. Other things I check before firing up include the electrics for any shorts. An easy way to do this is measure the resistance at the plug end with the machine swich in the 'on' position.

You will probably find a fitting or two that leak during the initial heat-up. Once they're sorted, flush plenty of water through and you'll be good to go.
cheers
Paul

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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by jesawdy on Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:07 am

Robbert-

I would also recommend that during the initial leak detection phase and operational checking out, you start out with the heating element disconnected or disabled.
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by djmonkeyhater on Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:05 am

So it's home from the blaster and powdercoater.

Cost: $150. $75 for the blasting, $75 for the coating.

I went all black for budgetary reasons. It was an additional $75 to get the color that I wanted on the side panels and it might have added another couple days. At that point, I had driven around enough and had ordered a couple hundred dollars in small parts to replace all of the non-metal parts in the machine. And I still don't have a pump for it. So I end up with...

DARTH ASTORIA

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It's black. Really black. They used a matte finish that is popular on wrought iron gates. I liked it because it doesn't show fingerprints. My wife thinks that the machine looks mean now. My brother thought it would look fitting with a machine gun on top.

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More black and some well-worn emblems. I might keep them, I kinda like the evidence of prior duty.

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The gauge is in good shape cosmetically. Not sure if it works yet.

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Here is the boiler dropped in.

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Paul Pratt remarked on the poor rust proofing on CMA machines in general. You can see the legacy of that right here. They are not spending a lot of time on these frames in general. The welds are ugly, there are random holes in places and some of the brackets look home made. But they all get covered up and it makes good coffee.

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This is how far the power switch sticks out. It's the stock one I see in most photos and it still doesn't look right. Oh well, I'm probably going to replace it with one that doesn't need all of that plastic covering. Gravity will become my co-pilot and I'll move it up above the water and coffee blast zones. You can also see the fancy titanium bolts that I put back in to hold on the stainless. I'm focused on making it lighter. Not really, I have some piles of them from various bicycle endeavors and they don't rust.

WES
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by OkcEspresso on Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:44 am

The black looks great! Mine is that ugly greenish brownish bronzish finish. I debated doing this before so now I think I will do it and make a few more electronic changes that include removing the automatic buttons and brain and filling that hole with my 2 PIDs. A shot timer and preinfusion are also in the cards. I want to replace the motor and capacitor with a standard carbonation motor and move it under the counter. While doing this I will be replacing some of those quirky bent copper pipes with some stainless flex pipes.

But now that I see yours I think I will take it all the way down and repaint and change the legs. I have been thinking of putting the long Marzocco legs on there too.
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by cannonfodder on Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:26 pm

If that is Darth Astoria then my machine must be the Death Faema.
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I stripped my frame with Aircraft paint stripper but I know I guy that worked for a commercial power coater. They hung the frame on the rack and coated it for free while they were doing a bunch of truck parts. I could have any color I wanted as long as it was gloss black.
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by OkcEspresso on Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:32 am

I dont want to threadjack but if you guys CannonFodder and DJMonkeyHater could have any color you wanted, what would it be?
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by cannonfodder on Wed Sep 19, 2007 10:28 am

Cobalt blue or Ducati red.
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by djmonkeyhater on Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:54 am

hmmm.

I would have gone for a dark red on the panels while keeping the frame and that contrasting rear panel black. The matte finish is totally growing on me.

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I continue to soldier on with the wiring. This is connected to the brain and the Gicar box. Is is the relay for an external pump?

WES
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Stuck pump

Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by Robbert on Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:01 am

Hi guys,

I've been out of the loop for a while, but finally got around to putting it back together.
the good news: the machine still works.
the bad news is that I found out my pump doesn't:
it is completely seized.
the motor still works, but probably needs a new condensator.
I'm going to try to soak it a bit, and see if that helps
as paul pratt describes on his website.
a new pump is 90 euro's
as an alternative, how do you find a place that
can rebuild your pump?

I've decided to put off the rewiring until the machine is working
again. that way I know that if it is not working after the being rewired,
it is an electrical rather than an mechanical error.

there is a little coffee bar here on campus run by the students,
and I've taken on some of the shifts there,
the setup is oke, grinder and 2grp hx unic,
but the cleaning is not so good: I am the only one
who washes the driptray and they don't backflush.
the real sad thing is the beans: they buy the cheapest
beans they can find at the supermarket.

I did find a coffee roaster in town though,
who roasts every day, so he might roast an espresso blend
every week or so.
so once I get up and running I will have a source of
coffee.

I also had the first go at backflushing on my machine, which
convinced me of the benefits of doing it.
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by djmonkeyhater on Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:16 am

Oh my Lady AEP-1, you have not been forgotten. Got back from a business trip, worked on it for a couple weeks and then left on this trip with the images. Coming to you from Taipei, Taiwan where the Lavazza cafe down the street only can use pods and good lord it was terrible.....progress.

This is the bottom "nut" for the sight glass. I'm not a huge fan of any washer or seal on this thing so far that isn't made out of silicone or Teflon and here's why: YOU HAVE TO PAINSTAKINGLY CHIP, PRY, SCRATCH AND CHISEL THEM OUT OF EVERYTHING! I had been working on this one with a small flathead screwdriver that was good and sharp. Which of course meant that my left thumb was getting stabbed about three times a minute. So here it is after 5 minutes:
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While stared blankly at another episode of some TV show involving attractive people in a crime lab and put pressure on another nick in my thumb, I wondered if I could fight fire with fire?
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Yes, the answer is resoundingly, yes. Here it is in action:
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You literally have to apply the flame for less than three seconds and the rubber washer crumbles like the Colorado Rockies in the first three games of the World Series. Here's the result after about a minute of applying the torch for 5 seconds, picking at it with the screwdriver for 5 seconds and repeating.
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I'm about ready to start re-assembling for good. I have done a lot of dry-assembling to get a handle on the sequence. Which was good because it turns out that you have install the boiler AFTER you put the HX fill pipe in place.

Anyway, I'm going to see if the Sirai pressurestat mounts easily next.

WES
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From the penn pressurestat to the sirai

Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by djmonkeyhater on Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:01 am

So it came with a Penn Pressure Stat. Like I've said before, 1959 Volkswagens have electronics that appear to be more sophisticated.

Someone really smart can weigh in if I'm wrong but it's basically a device that takes steam pressure, switches at a setpoint and converts that into a low voltage signal that goes to a relay that switches the 220v power to the heating element. Steam pressure has a predictable relationship with temperature and thus we have a thermally managed gallon of hot water.

So i got a Sirai pressure stat, the hottest 2lb pressure stat in the business. I think it's bigger and heavier than a Gaggia Espresso boiler. I was worried about fit and here's how it went.

All of the shiny brass that you see was earned with blood and sweat. If there's a machine that can do this, I'll buy it.

Brilliantly is the answer.

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The Sirai is close to the Penn main unit in size, which means it can fit in the same place AND in the same orientation. Which means I can use the same pipe with the same bends and superbly enough....it takes the same size fitting.

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And the back panel kicks out enough to clear. It's like it was made to fit. Which maybe it was. Element in and boiler cap all bolted up.

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I accidentally bought a new heating element. This one is 7 years old per the date stamped on it. New teflon gasket for it as well.

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Also, I bought the things (safety & anti-siphon valves) that keep the boiler from imploding or exploding. I wasn't sure if there'd be a Mythbusters episode pending or not but it seemed like a good idea. There was tons of Teflon tape on every threaded joint in my machine. I've been advised that it's the surest sign of amateur repair.

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Wiring will come soon.
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by djmonkeyhater on Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:12 am

More assembly:

This has been a good angle to work on the machine. Especially all of the water fill parts and inlet valves on the underside.

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Boiler and holy smokes - the world's ugliest power switch. Maybe I'll put in a solenoid.

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This took a whole episode of CSI to polish. it went together nicely with some silicone faucet washer lube. i've used a lot of that stuff during the reassembly. I don't know if it's completely kosher but since i'm going to run about 15 gallons of water through it before i pull a shot, i hope to be safe.

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Sight glass and other pipes.

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Here's about 90% of an Astoria rebuild kit if you were wondering. Only a couple of them were hard to figure out where they go.

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Most of what I have left to do is related to the filling and cold-water inlet. Inlet, auto-fill solenoid and some one-way valves to re-assemble.

out.
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by djmonkeyhater on Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:04 am

Continuing onward.

Since it was a "frame up" restoration, i've got some good freedom to work on the details.

Here's the bracket it came with. These close-up photos of the wiring would prove to be the critical link to re-assembly of the electrical system. I completely de-commissioned it to have the frame painted and cut a couple wires during disassembly that I would later not wish i had BUT almost all of it was immediately rectified with photo evidence.

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I took the nasty galvanized mounting bracket for the autofill box and motor solenoid and painted. One primer, one black and one clear.

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Then mounted it up. I have lots of good metric hardware from other pursuits so I'm upgrading where I can. These are cad-plated bolts from a motorcycle. The slotted screws that were on there were total crap and tiny.

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IF YOU TAKE APART A MACHINE, TAKE HUNDREDS OF PHOTOS! In the beginning, I tried to document with tape and pen, all of the parts I took off. Total waste of time given the amount of acid, water, heat, solvents, cleaning, handling, storage and so on that these things see during the disassembly and reassembly.

My approach with the wiring harness was to pull it out, chunk by chunk and reassemble it outside the machine. Then I took more photos.

This is where the power comes out for the pump. I took some photos, snipped all of the zip ties, disconnected wires where it prevented me from pulling it out and then reconnected them.

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And then took more photos.

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Take those photos! I searched high and low in the USA and Italy looking for a wiring diagram. I found NOTHING. Semi-automatic machines of this vintage are not overly electrically complex but I recommend a lot of multi-meter work and triple-checking before you send 220v of juice into it.
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by djmonkeyhater on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:38 pm

For those of you out there waiting with bated breath, she's all done.

When I left you last, it was mostly mechanically bolted together and completely without wiring. It was a daunting project to undertake. Thankfully an experienced friend in Tacoma came to my rescue. It was an unexpected display of generosity as it took about 6 hours for me to completely wire it. All I had for documentation were the pictures that I had taken before disassembly and common sense. Luckily, the only complicated part on a machine like this is for the Gicar autofill circuit or "the thing that senses when the boiler needs more water and turns on the pump".

Adding to the electrical hurdles were:
- I replaced 95% of the wires. There is a group of them under the Autofill brain that are short and seemed in good shape. I changed all of the others.
- Changing from the Penn Pressurestat to the Sirai. In hindsight, it's hardly different but it did add a couple of decisions
- Rerouting wires. The old wires in my machine were draped across anything and everything hot or wet within reach. Most ranged from stiff to charred where there was contact. How could it ever have seemed like a good idea to allow the 3-way solenoid wires to rest on the group head? I moved most them to the rear of the machine and bundled them in the frame rails.

But we did it. Late that day, we connected it to a 220 line, put on helmets, grabbed a fire extinguisher and turned it on. It fired right up.

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My trusted adviser told me that something will always leak on a rebuild. He was right and then some. I had at least 3 major leaks (1/4 cup per minute+) and 4-5 minor ones.

Some just weren't tight enough and a little twist solved the problem. You may ask why there is water all over the front of the machine. Well, I'll advise you to be very sure which direction "tight is" and to understand all of your water lines. I sprayed water all over the basement 3 separate times only slightly burning myself once while adjusting a couple poorly understood water connections with various pressures behind them. So I got in the habit of being more careful with unplugging and cooling. I only forgot to turn the water back on once, leaving the ProCon to spin dry for a couple minutes during another test run. Check out the new guy!

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Others fittings were not so agreeable. I had reassembled all of them without any pipe sealant or teflon tape. This was not to remain true as there are fittings that seem to require it. Particularly, the two elbows into the Autofill solenoid needed 4+ wraps of Teflon tape each. If you look at the photo above, there is a yogurt container under there that would fill up every couple of minutes. Sharp eyes will notice the puddle at the back of the workbench. That was another leak that went unnoticed until it started dripping onto the floor.

Next time, i might do this part of it outside.

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From the top.

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8L boiler = lots of power. I am totally impressed with the muscle that 220v provides. This machine weighs 120lbs, has a giant grouphead and I think it heats up faster than a Silvia. If you can run 220 to your shrine, do it.

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First shot. Patted myself on the back for at least two minutes. For the real technicians reading this, I had installed the 3-way solenoid backwards during reassembly. The machine would power up, heat up, the wands would work and I could hit the brew button and get the motor to run. BUT NOTHING CAME OUT of the group. Sharp eyed readers will recognize a spare group head on the bench in the above images. It helped me to understand the water path and solenoid states. I was despondent but figured it out before total depression set in.

Funny story here. I went looking for "cheap" whole beans to do the test runs on this thing. My artisan crafted, fair trade, shade grown organic, fancy guy beans are clearly too good for this job - right? So a quick walk to a West Seattle Safeway for some cheap stuff and what do I see? Nothing under $9/lb. Do people actually pay $9.50/lb for Safeway Select or $13.40/lb for Seattle's Best in a grocery store? I haven't tried either and maybe they are the best kept secrets in coffeeland but it was a shock to me. So it's back to the health food store for my $10/lb good stuff. A dollar well spent.

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There it is. A couple more things to do. I've got a dryer plug on it because that's the outlet style nearby. I'll probably downsize that to use a standard size outlet for it. There's one more leak underneath but it's super tiny.

Anyway, I couldn't have done it without HB member support.

Huge thanks to those who helped.
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by espressme on Sat Jan 05, 2008 11:50 pm

Congratulations and Happy Brew Year!
I've learned a lot from this thread! Thanks
richard / espressme
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by mogogear on Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:52 pm

Wes, I am sure impressed- Nice documentation and thanks for throwing in those important side notes - like---" write down , take pictures of , make notes on..." where things go! Amen brother!

Great job- the steam bath picture is priceless- ! Now just sneak it in to the kitchen when the wife is asleep... Have you thought about insulating the boiler any? On machines that big and here in the PNW - that basement could keep that pstat / element working a lot..

Anyway- she is a Beaut! A+
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by 703Eric on Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:45 am

Congrats, She's a beaut! :D
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by djmonkeyhater on Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:26 am

On machines that big and here in the PNW - that basement could keep that pstat / element working a lot..


Thanks for all of the positive support for the project.

The plan always was to insulate the boiler. I wanted to make sure that everything worked and was not leaky before I did it though.

Now I need to decide what to insulate the boiler with. It seems as though there is no easy answer!
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by ByronA on Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:36 am

Very nice work! And you got both machines working in the end at the same time! Bravo!
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Link to "Astoria 1 group renewal"by john_K on Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:14 am

Nice work Wes! Need another project? :D

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