Any one seen, used, or own the Gaggia Achille? - Page 2

[HooHaw]

hogfire, the Achille is 220V and US is 110V... but that doesn't really answer your question. Maybe Gaggia wants Europe to debug the Achille first then sell it in the US after.

jojolever, I don't suppose you'd care to take apart your lovely Achille and see if it really is a HX...?

[oliof]

Don't really know what kind of collection you'd call it, maybe research is a good term...
Anyway, now I've got both a LaPeppina and a MicroCimbali on the way.

I was also very impressed with the pics of JonR10's Mini Gaggia, I'd like to find one of those too. Looking on the gaggia site is where I found the Achille, just before that pic was posted. Cant find much about it though. Spring or not, etc....
Found it on German review site at one point, but I haven't studied German for years and Ich habe es alle vergessen, so that didn't help much. Doubt I could find the site again anyway.

You'd probably find something on http://www.kaffee-netz.de/ - but I never was active on that site, so I can't really say.

I plan to apply for an LMWDP membership number soon (waiting for my preferred #), even though I try to strictly adhere to the "Groucho Marx Principal"*

ciao

lino


* For those unfamiliar, Groucho Marx said he would never join a club that would have him as a member. On the other hand, regarding his "Principles", he also said: "Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others"

"It's easier to stay out than to get out." With lever machines, this is quite true.

[Breaddrink]

I'm not sure if anyone ever found out much about it.
I contacted Gaggia and asked them when the Achille would be for sale in the US with a 110 volt supply, and they pointed me at wholelattelove.com and said to ask them.

I'm waiting to hear back on a price but they did confirm that it will be due sometime in january 2006.

Rob.

[Alchemist]

I don't even have a lever yet, but I am a Gaggia fan. I came across the Achille on e-bay and have read all I can find about it. In general, I don't care for various things about other levers, be it spring loaded or small PF - but the Achille addresses both of these and seems a really nice machine to shoot for.

So, any clue what would happen if you did not use a transformer to boost to 220 V and instead just hacked the power cord for 110 V? I realize it would have a longer rebound time, but would it still work?

[Teme]

In general, I don't care for various things about other levers, be it spring loaded or small PF - but the Achille addresses both of these and seems a really nice machine to shoot for.

The Achille does not have a spring loaded lever. It is a manual lever machine.

I'm still not fully convinced that it has a HX, either. How would this work? In other lever machines that water is driven to the grouphead by the fact that the boiler is above atmospheric pressure. What would drive the water to the grouphead in a HX lever?

Br,
Teme

[another_jim]

I'm still not fully convinced that it has a HX, either. How would this work? In other lever machines that water is driven to the grouphead by the fact that the boiler is above atmospheric pressure. What would drive the water to the grouphead in a HX lever?

Commercial HX levers use mains pressure; with the pourover Pav Pub having an assist pump for boiler and cylinder filling.

The Achille may be valved like an old well pump, so the upstroke sucks in water. Or it could be simple gravity: the reservoir they mention looks like it's sitting on the bridge between the boiler and group, there's enough space beneath it to hold 1.5 ounces.

[gammeltoft]

Hi Teme,

To me it seems quite obvious that the Gaggia Achille is using the same principle that the Peppina and other older lever machines, i.e. gravity-feed. As the reservoir is located on top of the boiler (and higher than the group), wouldn't this (in conjunction with the pull effect from raising the lever, I sometimes manage to get water out of a cold Pavoni doing this) be enough to feed the group?

In any case, how would this beast be able to work if not through some kind of HX loop. They quite clearly advertise this as a "continuous use" machine, arguing that you can just add more water to the reservoir and then keep pulling shots. If the reservoir feeds water to the main boiler, you would need some kind of pressure equalisation or a pump that can be activated. I can't see that any of those are present.

But hey, there is a Danish company that has started to sell these. I may try and call them and see if they are a bit more knowledged than the UK salesperson I spoke to.

Best

Thomas

[Teme]

Hi Thomas,

The gravity-feed makes sense. If the water is flash heated in the HX, there must also be a need for a cooling flush if the machine has been idle? An interestng one indeed.

Who sells these in Denmark?

Br,
Teme

[gammeltoft]

Hi Teme,

Check out http://www.espressoservice.dk. They seem to import the full Gaggia range.

Best

Thomas

[gammeltoft]

Hi,

Just made a new post with the exploded parts diagram of the machine....


Thomas

[Vienna]

Hello, as I'm new here (writing, not reading) I want to shortly introduce myself.
I live in Vienna, Austria, the City where one lives in the Coffee House and sleeps at home.
So I love Coffee, and also I am fascinated in the many different ways one can prepare it.
Some years ago I started a little collection of different machines of the last century, which, if there's interest, I can show you some pics in future.

Why I post on "Levers" and here the Achille Thread:
Over a year ago I got a Pavoni Europiccola from Ebay and meanwhile (also thank's to the tips in this forum) can handle it quite well.
Problem is, I got it only with the big basket, and the resulting coffee is too strong for everybody in the family but me.
And result of "thinning" the coffee with several presses into one cup simply doesn't taste well.
My wife started to dislike the Pavoni, as the coffee for her was undrinkably strong, and so in her eyes it was just an unnecessary thing taking away place in her kitchen.
So I bought a small basket on ebay, but it doesn't fit into the head, as it's diameter is app. 1/2 mm too small.
I went to the importer of Pavoni with the head, but also their baskets where this little too small.
He had no idea how this could happen, and never has seen a Pavoni with this strange head size.

So finally I had the idea to sell my "strange sized" Pavoni, which as for the rest is in top condition, no leaks, no rust (not even under the black drip catcher), no stains anywhere, and bid for another one with both baskets.

And then I found an affordable Achille Gaggia.

When I had started looking for a Lever nearly two years ago the Achille already was announced, but to prices far above 1000 EUR, which was way too much money for me, although I fell in love with it at the first sight.
And I knew since my youth that a Gaggia machine in a restaurant is the guarantee for a really good coffee.
(Even in Germany, once you make them use 2 clicks of grounded coffee for one cup, and not one click for two cups as they usually do)
Also I had thought about an Elektra, but somehow I prefer to feel the pressure directly and be able to compensate little mistakes in grinding and pressing and not leave it all to a spring. And it also was too expensive for me with never any used ones in Ebay.

Well, when I started searching for a replacement to my Pavoni two weeks ago I found, besides the new Stradivari, an Achille offered to a price I can afford (and won't even be killed by my wife
So after studying the forum discussions (especially finding that jojolever seems to like his, after his hard period of decision-finding helped me a lot), downloaded the handbook, and the explosion-drawing, who's link I found here too, I was sure my decision is right,
and ordered one last week.
My first brand new machine except the 30 EUR Filter with the auto-timer which lets us wake up with ready coffee-smell in the morning!

The merchant is on shopping tour in Italy (Gaggia and La Pavoni) right now, and they'll send it to me on Jan 9th.
Once I have it I'll open a new thread "Pavoni vs. Achille", as off course I won't give away my Pavoni before several intensive side-by-side comparison sessions!

Until then
Greetings from Vienna

[KarlSchneider]

Dear "Wien",

Welcome to the Lever Machine Forum! I am sure there are many who will be pleased to get a report from you on your experiences. Pictures are always welcome as well.

I was a student in Wien in 1968-69 and had my first espresso at what I think was called the Cafe Wok located on the corner of the Freyung closest to the Ring. Is it still there? I fondly remember the heavy little brown cups.

I look forward to your posts.

KS

[Walter]

Servus (nach) Wien,

and welcome here. To the best of my knowledge Pavoni used ~49mm baskets (pre-millennium) and ~51mm baskets (post-millennium). Both sizes should be still avilable from espressoxxl.de. Unless your grouphead has been replaced I don't see why it should have a different size.

But be that as it may, I have a post-millennium Pavoni and don't use the single basket (and most probably won't ever use it). If you measure the exact diameter of your grouphead I could check if my basket fits your machine and would send it along in case it fits...

Walter

[Vienna]

Hello

1st
Lieber Walter, vielen Dank fur das freundliche Angebot, ich werde meinen Kopf zu Hause vermessen, aber wie gesagt, der Generalimporteur hatte Siebe beider (bekannter) Grossen, aber meine Grosse hat er noch nie gesehen.

2nd
Studying the Achille instruction booklet (pdf) which You can download from here:
http://www.gaggia.com/macchine-da-caffe.asp?macchine-per-espresso-manuali_11_Achille
I found an optional part they call "Perfect Foam Disk" , or Perfect crema device (Part Nr. 13)

"Perfect crema" device (13)
To ensure the optimum function of the "Perfect crema" device, insert the frothing jet device into the filter holder. We recommend that the"Perfect crema" device be cleaned on a daily basis, before use, in order to prevent any blockage of the delivery holes. A pin may be used to clean out the hole. Even if the type of coffee grind is not correct the use of the "Perfect crema" device will produce the typical creamy froth of an espresso coffee.
N.B.: Only use the "perfect crema device with a large 2-cup filter.

Anybody seen something like this, and does it make sense?

Also I'd like to get some comments on the optional Milk Frother. (I guess that's what Pavoni calls the Cappucinatore - which I don't have).
With my Europiccola I'm not good in producing a stable thick milk foam as I love it, but the nozzle on the Achille looks different, so I'll see if I'm better with this.
Would you think the Milk Frother to be a good and foolproof alternative?

[bill]

I think this device may give you the illusion you've got everything right when you don't. The crema is the result of brewing a good cup of espresso. Not the other way around.
Bill

[jojolever]

Hello Vienna,
The perfect crema is no necessary, to have crema with the Achille. And the cappucinatore i don't need it too make good froth milk with the steam wand. I use only the double portafilter, you can make two coffe with it or a double, with the single i can't have good results.
If your wife, find the coffee too strong, make a macchiato, put a little froth milk on top of the espresso and it is delicious...
Alles gut fur dich mit dem Achille.

[Walter]

Both devices are not necessary - rather they may indeed be giving you the illusion of doing it right rather than forcing you to develop your skills. The 'perfect crema device' will add additional air to your coffee and thus only add some sort of watery foam instead of real crema.

Espresso - real espresso - is a rather complex substance, a polyphasic mixture consisting of an emulsion of oil-droplets plus a suspension of coffee-particles plus air-bubbles, all in a liquid - watery - matrix. Parts of the ingredients act as detergents which will make these bubbles fairly stable for a while, also they will move upwards to the surface and remain there - in part they will still be on the wall of the cup when the espresso is already history

Now the chemically important parts for this crema to appear and be stable are the extracted lipids, if your brewing process doesn't extract them for one reason or the other, no 'perfect crema device' will be able to add them afterwards.

The cappuccinatore is able to froth the milk, but I have never seen such a device create this velvety microfoam which makes for an excellent cappuccino. Plus it is a pain to keep clean.

Edit:
One additional remark: The steamer on the achille looks exactly like the one I had on my Gaggia syncrony some years ago. It might not be able to produce a good microfoam - at least I didn't manage it with that - and it was a pain to keep clean too. You might want to replace that with a metal steam wand...

[Vienna]

Danke Walter for the clear explanations.
Actually I'm quite happy with the espresso (and crema) I manage to produce with my Pavoni, and I guess (hope) with the Achille my quality will get even better.
For me Gaggia is a somewhat magical name in Espresso machines, as NEVER I remember having got anything but an excellent Espresso in any Coffee-house or restaurant equipped with a Gaggia. (Not even in Germany or New York - once you persuade them to double the beans and half the water ).
I just wondered what this device might be, and thought it must be great as it comes from Gaggia.
Frothing still is some problem for me. I get hot milk with airbubbles, but not really stiff foam.
(If I need impressive foam for guests, I -to be honest - cheat with one of these little battery operated frothers - that works super!)
But I haven't worked myself through all the tips and tricks of the foaming thread.
I hoped also here Gaggia would do everything better - until I read Your reply.
Well, I'll see how I and my Achille will do. If we won't work out fine, I'll follow Your tip and will try to get a (one hole) metal Steamer wand.
Regards from Vienna
Martin

[Vienna]

Well, I got it. I'll post some pictures another time.
First It is a beauty.
The first tries where disappointing:
Filling the basket, and tamping very hard, as my Pavoni needs it, I couldn't get the handle in. So the upper level of coffee needs to be nearly 3mm under the rim. (1,5 on the Pavoni).
I scratched some off, tamped again.
Waited for he first drops to come, but they didn't appear.
Then I could pull the handle several times with nothing but gurgling sounds, nothing came out.
On about the third pull I banged against a wall. No way to pull the handle down. Nothing came out.
Took out the coffee. refilled, and tamped VERY slightly. And then the first coffee came even with some crema.
It tastes better than what I get out of the Pavoni, also to my wife - no idea why.
And the milk gets the wonderful tight strong foam on the very first try. (Don't manage to get this with my Pavoni after 1 1/2 years!)
What's funny: You have the heated boiler with about 1atm pressure, and the water tank on top.
I made several cups, and the head didn't get very hot.
I could make 1 Liter of coffee without it getting too hot. (After 4 cups, the Pavoni boils over)
Also you can use larger cups, as there is more space between the head and the tray.
The metal plate on the tray is stupid, as it doesn't click in anywhere, but slides around freely.
When the top tank was empty I thought, well, go on from the boiler.
But no! Full boiler with empty top tank doesn't work!
It takes the water only from the top tank - strange.
What I noticed was, that the milk foamer, when turned off, always steamed a little, and hot water dropped out.
And after about 2 Liters a little water came out of the base of the boiler when pulling the lever.
The mould under the tray was under water.
I completely cleaned and dried everything.
And next morning I made coffee, and suddenly the light went out. All fuses were banged through.
After unplugging the Achille and replacing the fuses, I noticed, that the table under the Achille was completely wet.
So it seemed that on the brand new machine some fittings were not tight.
Very disappointing.
I sent it back for repair. 20 EUR for the parcel!

Next report in about a week, when they promised it will come back.

P.S. Excuse my bad english and spelling today, but its very late already, and I had a hard day.
Regards from Vienna,
and don't miss to watch the downhill racing of Kitzbuehel this weekend!!

[jojolever]

Hello Vienna,
I have the same problem that you with water under machine, then i send it to repair and it work well now.
In Gaggia swiss, they tell me that its normal that water drop for front of machine but abnormal under the machine and the electronic is under the machine.
When the steam wand is off, i don't have water dropping of mine.
And if the coffee had problem to come that is the grind setting is too fine, now i grind more coarser that first and i put more volume and tamp harder, the taste is better but i have a little less crema. My setting is 10 after the zero point of my grinder with 18 grams of coffee for two coffee.
Good luck austria for the downhill but the surprise will be swiss....