Andreja HX Flush question

[MarkJames]

I've been doing the cooling flush on my recently purchased Andreja in line with the article posted in the HB How-To section. I've noticed something that I think I understand but I just want to clarify with some other Andreja owners.

I flush with my double portafilter in place. The water flow is reasonably steady for the first 5-10 seconds at which time it starts to taper off to almost nothing for a brief moment. It then starts going again at a nice even pace and stays that way. I suspect that I'm seeing the water getting forced out ahead of the built up steam in the first 10 seconds and then once the steam/overly hot water has cleared through the group it starts pumping steadily. Has anyone else noticed this, though?

Mark

[Ken Fox]

I've been doing the cooling flush on my recently purchased Andreja in line with the article posted in the HB How-To section. I've noticed something that I think I understand but I just want to clarify with some other Andreja owners.

I flush with my double portafilter in place. The water flow is reasonably steady for the first 5-10 seconds at which time it starts to taper off to almost nothing for a brief moment. It then starts going again at a nice even pace and stays that way. I suspect that I'm seeing the water getting forced out ahead of the built up steam in the first 10 seconds and then once the steam/overly hot water has cleared through the group it starts pumping steadily. Has anyone else noticed this, though?

Mark

There is no reason to do cooling flushes with the PF in place.

If you want to see what is going on with your grouphead while it is flushing, there is no better way to do this than to flush WITHOUT the PF in place.

ken
p.s. flushing with a PF in place is unlikely to be a good substitute for simply leaving the PF in the group when it is not being used to make espresso. If this is why you are doing it, to be able to store the PF elsewhere, don't.

[SLC]

I am also getting the tapering off to almost nothing after approximately 5 oz. (portafilter in place with single double or triple basket). There is then a short pause before a steady mellow stream. I am using the pause as the point when the overly heated water stops. I then flush for 5 more seconds before stopping. I take care of grinding and then pull within thirty seconds.

Are others seeing that and using that as their guide?

[Grant]

I am also getting the tapering off to almost nothing after approximately 5 oz. (portafilter in place with single double or triple basket). There is then a short pause before a steady mellow stream. I am using the pause as the point when the overly heated water stops. I then flush for 5 more seconds before stopping. I take care of grinding and then pull within thirty seconds.

Are others seeing that and using that as their guide?

I see that pattern of water flow on my Bricoletta (electronic controls, not a lever), but only if I have a PF/Basket in place (it must have something to do with steam pressure, water flow, vacuum etc. etc). Note - I don't see that same "pause" unless there is a PF/basket in place.

Anyways, I do not use it in any way to time my flushes as I watch the flush with NO PF in the group, and then flush/count down about 5 seconds after the hissing/steaming stops (as my default value).

Grant

[MarkJames]

There is no reason to do cooling flushes with the PF in place.

If you want to see what is going on with your grouphead while it is flushing, there is no better way to do this than to flush WITHOUT the PF in place.

ken
p.s. flushing with a PF in place is unlikely to be a good substitute for simply leaving the PF in the group when it is not being used to make espresso. If this is why you are doing it, to be able to store the PF elsewhere, don't.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.... I DO leave the PF in the group when it's not being used. I'm not sure I see the reason why I should remove it prior to flushing. My understanding is that the reason for flushing is to blow off the overly hot water and steam that builds up when it's sat idle for an extended period. I don't get why the PF being in place would have any influence when there's no coffee in it? Apparently there's a reason because others here are flushing WITHOUT the PF in place - What's the reason?

I am also getting the tapering off to almost nothing after approximately 5 oz. (portafilter in place with single double or triple basket). There is then a short pause before a steady mellow stream. I am using the pause as the point when the overly heated water stops. I then flush for 5 more seconds before stopping. I take care of grinding and then pull within thirty seconds.

Are others seeing that and using that as their guide?

That's precisely what I'm doing (funny how that can happen)..... but now I'm questioning if what I (we) are doing is right


Mark

[arossphoto]

Apparently there's a reason because others here are flushing WITHOUT the PF in place - What's the reason?

For me it just seems more convenient. I leave the PF in place when not in use. When I'm ready to pull a shot I grind, remove the PF, dose and tamp. While I'm dosing and tamping I will do the cooling flush without the PF in place. I find it very easy to hear when the flush is finished without the PF in place. I also don't have to dry the PF after flushing.

Andrew

[Ken Fox]

Why not flush through the PF, you asked.

The idea behind the "water dance" as espoused here by many (not me, largely because it would not make sense at my altitude where water boils much below 212F, as at sea level), is to watch the "flashing" off the group screen and to stop flushing based upon what you see. You can't possibly do that with the PF in place, because there is no way that water is going to flash off the spouts of your PF or it's underside if you have a bottomless PF, unless you have your boiler set at some absurdly high temperature. There is a loss of at least several (Jim S. has recently stated, 10F, presumably with coffee in the basket) degrees between the group screen and the exit from the PF. So, you are going to be at a loss of how to calibrate your shot temperature in the absence of flashing.

My machines are PID'd in the boiler and my strategy for shot temperature management would presumably not work for you.

In addition, since the PF is presumably clean since you rinsed or wiped it after the last shot (right, eh?) and it may very well be dry after having sat in the group for a while from the last shot, why would you want to make more work for yourself, having a wet PF, that you then have to dry before you can dose it with ground coffee? That's an extra step and not something I'd seek out when making espresso.

ken

[MarkJames]

I actually tried it 'your way' tonight. Left the PF in place till I was ready for my evening coffee. I removed the PF and did my flush while dosing. I have to say that I agree with you.... it's much easier to see what's happening without the PF in place. It's also easier to dose and tamp with a dry PF as you pointed out. I think I'm a convert.

Thanks!

Mark

[mrgnomer]

I've got a Vetrano and the transition is pretty easy to hear. I count about 6 sec after the dance and pull after about 25-30 sec of rebound time. I've never thought of flushing with the pf in place but I read a trick to hear the end of the water dance better is to partially have the pf in place to amplify the sound of the dance.