Alternatives to the La Marzocco GS3 - Page 2

[Jacob]

Does Dalla Corte have a US distributor yet?

http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/327445#327445 and http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/327440#327440

The complete Dalla Corte line is available in the USA. Feel free to contact me with any questions at james@dallacorte.com

Hello, I am James Warren and am the official importer for the Dalla Corte line in the States. The warehouse is located in Concord CA and we will be opening a training center in Emeryville CA.

Edit:

gammeltoft's Dalla Corte Mini Review

http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/303850


And one from stephen

http://flyingthud.wordpress.com/2007/05/06/

[mdreuben]

I was looking forward to the GS3 as a replacement for my 7 year old Giotto. But at over 7K it just ain't gonna happen. Now I've got upgrade fever (and a buyer for the Giotto). What machines should I be looking at?

Martin

[HB]

(Martin, I hope you don't mind, I merged your question with a previous thread on the same subject.)


Alternatives for you depend on what attribute you value in the GS3. The temperature control, compact size, pourover availability, ease of use, 15A requirement, others? I'm not aware of any espresso machine that hits all of these attributes like the GS3. There are those that have some of them (e.g., La Spaziale Vivaldi "mini", Expobar Brewtus, dual boiler Vibiemme).

[mdreuben]

The temperature control, compact size, pourover availability, ease of use, 15A requirement, others?

Hi Dan, good questions - thanks for taking the time to help me clarify. I'm looking for temperature control and a compact size (I've got barely 16" high where I like to put the machine). Pour over and 15A is not a concern. I like the "bling" factor of all the stainless on my Giotto, but the coffee does come first.

[HB]

I like the "bling" factor of all the stainless on my Giotto, but the coffee does come first.

Hmm-m. The Giotto is a solid performer. Are you dissatisfied with the espresso it produces or dislike the extra steps its HX design requires?

I ask because the best espressos from your Giotto compare favorably to nearly all the gear out there. For example, Abe's Buyer's Guide to the Expobar Brewtus says "Here Brewtus outperforms the Giotto due to its accurate and easy temperature control and range. That advantage brings exceptional consistency, and a higher likelihood of an exceptional espresso." Note he's not saying the best of the Brewtus is better than the best of the Giotto, rather that the likelihood of getting better espresso is higher. Your effort and money may be better spent improving your existing setup rather than starting over with a "newer, better" one.

[zin1953]

Alternatives for you depend on what attribute you value in the GS3. The temperature control, compact size, pourover availability, ease of use, 15A requirement, others? I'm not aware of any espresso machine that hits all of these attributes like the GS3. There are those that have some of them (e.g., La Spaziale Vivaldi "mini", Expobar Brewtus, dual boiler Vibiemme).

Interesting mention of the 15A requirement. That's but one reason why, as good as it is, I've eliminated the Elektra Sixties from my upgrade list. (That, and I can't see draining a 6.0L boiler as often as they recommend.) The Cimbali Junior seems much more manageable in that regard, and is 15A.

Much to my wallet's dismay, I've eliminated the Vivaldi on aesthetics (I like stainless). I wish there was more experience with the Dalla Corte in the American market, and I'm tempted by the Vibiemme DB machine, although -- granted DB's are not new technology, but they're new to Vibiemme -- I wish there was more "real world" experience with it, too.

Cheers,
Jason

P.S. "Pourover," for me is a "been there, done that" issue -- I can't wait to have a machine that's plumbed in!

[Ken Fox]

Interesting mention of the 15A requirement. That's but one reason why, as good as it is, I've eliminated the Elektra Sixties from my upgrade list. (That, and I can't see draining a 6.0L boiler as often as they recommend.) The Cimbali Junior seems much more manageable in that regard, and is 15A.

I sent an email to Chris last week and a couple of hours later he called me on the phone. During the conversation he told me that the present inventory of Cimbali Juniors and Elektra A3s (and possibly other machines, did not ask about that) was purchased at considerably lower prices than he and other dealers will have to pay to replace that stock. Prices are going up (sounds like 10-15%) by the beginning of next year. He said the same thing in an email he sent out to prior customers last month, essentially, if you want one of these machines and don't want to pay a lot more for it, buy it now and soon.

No one should be surprised about this, given the de facto devaluation of the dollar vs. the Euro, since these machines are all made in the Euro zone.

ken

[laservet]

Hmm-m. The Giotto is a solid performer. Are you dissatisfied with the espresso it produces or dislike the extra steps its HX design requires?

I ask because the best espressos from your Giotto compare favorably to nearly all the gear out there. For example, Abe's Buyer's Guide to the Expobar Brewtus says "Here Brewtus outperforms the Giotto due to its accurate and easy temperature control and range. That advantage brings exceptional consistency, and a higher likelihood of an exceptional espresso." Note he's not saying the best of the Brewtus is better than the best of the Giotto, rather that the likelihood of getting better espresso is higher. Your effort and money may be better spent improving your existing setup rather than starting over with a "newer, better" one.

I'm also looking to upgrade from my Giotto. In my case I'm looking toward removing the machine as a variable, so ease in accurate repeatability in temp is important to me. I'm also interested in something with a better build, as I've replaced the pump once and am on my fifth or sixth pressurestat and it's starting to get irritating.

I bought a Versalab grinder for a similar reason and have been very pleased with the difference between my shots vs my Mazzer Mini. Clumping is no longer an issue and I consistently get better looking extractions (as seen from the naked portafilter) with the M3. I think I can taste a difference as well, but if you put me to a blind taste test I doubt I could pick between them (barring a bad shot from tunneling on the Mazzer). Still, it makes me feel better knowing that I'm the weak link in the chain.

My end goal is to be able to spend my time exploring the effects of different roasts and temps on the flavor of the shot, with only those as signficant variables. And I want the convenience of a plumbed in machine. To that end I am on the list for the GS/3 but am contemplating jumping to the single group Cyncra instead now that the prices are similar. The benefits I still see to the GS/3 is that it is a bit smaller (my countertop is 24.5" deep) and doesn't require as large a hole drilled in the new granite countertop. I already have one hole about 1.25" in diameter and that would suffice for the GS/3 if I don't plumb the drain as well, whereas Synesso recommends a hole 2.5" in diameter for all the bits (might be able to add a second smaller hole and get everything through the two vs one honking big hole). I like the look of the Cyncra better.

I'm putting the machine on the right side of the sink (the Mazzer on the left is in storage, moved the Versalab to its place so the entire right side is open for the espresso machine:

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/6269730-lg.jpg

Anyway, just musing here, not sure which way to go.

[zin1953]

Edit:

gammeltoft's Dalla Corte Mini Review

http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espresso/machines/303850


And one from stephen

http://flyingthud.wordpress.com/2007/05/06/

FWIW, just noticed that Dalla Corte machines and grinders are on the Espresso Parts NW website here -- both "prosumer" and commercial machines.

[charlesaf3]

I was going to buy a GS3 but have lost interest at the price. If I have Laservets criteria - ie a machine without a huge learning curve - is there one of the La Spaz, Cimbali Jr, Brewtus that is preferable? I like a good microfoam latte if that is relevant. Assume good fresh coffee, and a grinder to match, though I haven't decided between macap, mazzer etc yet.

15 amps pourover is currently necessary for me, btw.

[klasl]

There is a review with pictures on the DC mini on bella barista homepage in the UK.

http://www.bellabarista.co.uk/pdf...nicloserlookv2.pdf

[Beezer]

Interesting review. Looks like the Dalla Corte shares many parts with the La Spaziale machines, including the brew group, PF's and steam arm. The design of the boilers looks similar too. The main difference, aside from the external appearance, appears to be the analog dial to control brew temperature rather than the Vivaldi''s digital control system. I think I like the Vivaldi a bit better, especially since it's several hundred dollars cheaper (at least for the moment), but the two machines appear to be very close in terms of design and construction.

[CoffeeOwl]

Interesting review. Looks like the Dalla Corte shares many parts with the La Spaziale machines, including the brew group, PF's and steam arm.

Review on Coffeegeek states the DC baskets are 54mm.


this reply is posted again, first appeared here

[Niko]

Looks like the Dalla Corte shares many parts with the La Spaziale machines, including the brew group, PF's and steam arm. The design of the boilers looks similar too.

I could be wrong but...
I "thought" I read somewhere that the DC guys used to work for LaSpaz years ago.
This would explain the similarities.

[CoffeeOwl]

Actually you read it here
and also on their own site and La Spaziale's there are some traces that they had shared their history once in a while.

[Marshall]

FWIW, just noticed that Dalla Corte machines and grinders are on the Espresso Parts NW website here -- both "prosumer" and commercial machines.

I am pretty sure their "Specifications" list is a mistake. The various "control systems" sound like the commercial models, and no mention was made of them in the excellent Bella Barista review. However, even without them, this sounds like a very interesting machine.

[Jacob]

I am pretty sure their "Specifications" list is a mistake.

Yes very confusing and we will probably have to mention this again and again until that page is updated.

Except for some electronic details the brew-group should be same as the one found on the Dalla Cortes commercial models (and my guess is that it's a better group than the one found on La Spaz).

[CoffeeOwl]

Actually I think it has the DTCS and DCS - the rest maybe not. Bella Barista doesn't mention it yet they pictured an electronic control unit on the machine's scheme.
As far confusion is concerned - probably many people will repeat the basket diameter mistake.

[Marshall]

Actually I think it has the DTCS and DCS - the rest maybe not. Bella Barista doesn't mention it yet they pictured an electronic control unit on the machine's scheme.

It is described as the "control board." So, I'm pretty sure it's just the internal "brain box."

I would also agree with that reviewer that a separate switch to disable the steam brewer would be a major plus.

[2-czech]

if i am not mistaken, Brunno Dalla Corte is the founder of LaSpaziale and the 'brain' behind E61...