Alex by Izzo - rotary pump you don't have to plumb in! - Page 3

[lparsons21]

Other than the newfound lightness in your wallet, you won't regret it!

The more I use it, the more I like it. I've pulled shot after shot that just came out nearly perfect each time. I'm even drinking straight espresso shots and I've always said I didn't like it!

As a test, I pulled 6 straight shots and then steamed 2 pitchers of milk. Nary a burp, boiler pressure stayed rock steady at 1.4 bar. Of course, this was done after I plumbed it in 'cause while you can use it as a pourover, that gets old quick.

[Ron_L]

Any tips or tricks on the plumb-in process? Did you order anything special from Chris, or did you have to go searching for any parts?

[lparsons21]

Any tips or tricks on the plumb-in process? Did you order anything special from Chris, or did you have to go searching for any parts?

It comes with the water inlet line you need to attach and mine had the John Guest fittings (very nice) on it. I bought the water softener/filter kit that came with everything else. I used 3/8". Hardest part was under the sink, but here's the link to what came with my kit to do that:

http://www.chriscoffee.com/produc...ittings/maxadaptor

That is in the kit for the softener/filter. Here's the link for the kit :

http://www.chriscoffee.com/produc...ing/softenersystem

I also got the drain kit which was easy to do since I just run that to a container. I couldn't install close enough to an existing drain pipe.

The John Guest fittings are really slick. Push and they are done.

[Ron_L]

Thanks! I just talked to Roger at Chris Coffee and he has me set up with what I need. I can hardly wait!

[lparsons21]

One of the things that I changed on mine was the pressure setting. From the factory it was set at 1.4 bar, I changed that to 1.1 to allow for shorter flushing times. Steaming is still excellent.

Adjusting the Pstat is very easy on this machine. Take the cup warmer off, look down at the left front of the top of the machine. There is a good size slot and the Pstat is right underneath it. Just a simple straight-slot screwdriver and about 1 3/4 counterclockwise turn brought mine right where I wanted it. No disassembly required.

The more I use this machine, the more I like it. Just superb!

I'm probably going to get a single-hole steam tip as I can't quite get the hang of this two-holer. I wonder which ones will fit?

[DaveC]

I'm probably going to get a single-hole steam tip as I can't quite get the hang of this two-holer. I wonder which ones will fit?

The expobar single hole steam tip is a perfect fit and it's what I use.

[Bertie Doe]

I also read in the thread some confusion about a Vibe pump in the machine, this could be confusion with it's little sister the Vivi

You're right, there is a lot of confusing material out there in the rotary v vibe debate. Two articles however, seem to stand out, 'The tale of 2 Juniors' by Ken Fox and Jim Schulman, is outstanding in it's impartiality and technical substance. Your article on the other hand http://tinyurl.com/ycdvya makes no reference to the vibe's ability to preinfuse and seems to suggest, that Rotaries have preinfusion qualities.

Since we introduced the Vetrano over a year ago many people have asked for an espresso machine with a nice quite rotary pump that they did not have to plumb in."

There are lot of people out there that want the benefit of a quiet rotary pump but either do not wish to plumb a machine in or cannot for one reason or another.

Chris, isn't there a grave danger of overhyping the rotary pump. In the domestic scene, the vibes must outnumber the rotaries by 100 to 1. Ok one is quieter than the other and costs more and Rotaries have longevity built in, but there are loads of happy vibe customers out there and not that many complaints, considering the volume sold.

[chris]

The question is more about what percentage of customers that contact us are looking to purchase a machine they can direct plumb vs adding water to manually. The percentage is 60/40, 40 percent buy machines that can be plumbed in and another 10% wish they could. I speak to people all the time and there are a few basic reasons people prefer direct plumbed machines over manual fill.

#1 Convenience of not having to add water.

#2 They like the idea of a much quieter machine. Many people have told me they have babies in the house and do not want to wake then up at 5:00 AM when they get up for work.

#3 The have hard water and prefer to simply add a filtration and softening system and not have to purchase bottled water.

#4 What fresh cool water entering the heat exchanger vs warm water from a water tank.

The list above is also in priority order.

When they purchase a direct plumb machine from us they also find out that it is not hard to do. Since we service more than 2,000 locations within a 75 mile radius of us such as convenient stores, coffee houses, hotels, restaurants, offices, hospitals, etc., etc. my seven techs have seen it all and done it all. Our goal is when selling someone a direct plumb machine is for them to be able to open the boxes and install it with NO trips to Home Depot and be done in less than 45 minutes.

[RapidCoffee]

Chris, isn't there a grave danger of overhyping the rotary pump. In the domestic scene, the vibes must outnumber the rotaries by 100 to 1. Ok one is quieter than the other and costs more and Rotaries have longevity built in, but there are loads of happy vibe customers out there and not that many complaints, considering the volume sold.

From your post, I'd say the opposite: rotaries are in danger of being underhyped. I'm not going to argue any differences in espresso quality, although IMHO this hasn't been adequately tested (La Cimbali Junior results do not automatically generalize to all HX machines). But even so, once you get into espresso machines costing over $1000, the added value of a rotary is very easy to justify. Every time I use my Vetrano's rotary pump, I'm grateful for its quietness. Remember, you engage the pump for the HX flush, portafilter wiggle, backflushing - not just pulling the shot. With a rotary pump, I can monitor the HX flush by sound alone; this was difficult with a vibe pump. Rotary pumps should also outlast vibe pumps, so in the long run they may actually be a cost saving upgrade.

Just my two cents worth. But I can't imagine ever going back to a vibe pump machine. Rotaries rock!
________
John

[lparsons21]

I agree with all that Chris said. The combination of plumb-in, rotary pump just makes so much sense, especially at the prosumer level.

Further, you use lots of water with an HX/E61 combo. I have an Izzo Alex and used it for a day as a pourover, I wouldn't want to do that much or often. It seemed like I was always filling the reservoir. I like it that I can use it pourover for outings and such, but I'm really loving the plumb-in.

And the plumb-in hardware that they sell is excellent. A few minutes under the sink to make that first conversion and then everything is push in simple.

[cannonfodder]

Once you own a plumb-in and plumb-out machine, regardless of whether it is rotary or vibe pump, you will wonder why you did not do it earlier. The convenience far outweighs the minor trouble of installing the supply and drain IMHO.

You also get those nifty features like mains preinfusion and fresh water. With a rotary pump you get easy pressure adjustments, longevity, quiet operation, positive line pressure for preinfusion and boiler auto fill (very important if you leave your machine on 24/7). With the vibe pump you must have a solenoid valve to shut off the line pressure when the pump is not running (vibes do not like constant positive pressure), lower MTBF (mean time between failures), louder operation but much cheaper replacement cost when it does fail.

Personally, I like the rotary and doubt I will go back.

[Bertie Doe]

Thanks Chris, John and Lloyd for a bit more insight into the rotary. I guess my mindset worked along the lines of ; Silvia 30sec x 4 per day and had eliminated noise as an issue. I'm the only coffee drinker at home and water usage is small here. I'd also overlooked the fact that plumbing in, was no longer a small niche market. Although water softeners I will avoid as I read that hard water is supposed to be healthier and citric is cheaper, but this belongs on another thread. Thanks

[lparsons21]

For those interested, I have posted a review at Coffee Geek. Just go to Consumer Reviews and do a search on 'Alex'

Tom, you may want to rethink softeners, especially with an HX machine. Descaling is no joy with them and a water softener should result in less descaling needs.

[cannonfodder]

That depends on what your hardness lever is. There is a certain amount of hardness needed for proper extraction. I believe it is around 100ppm but I am quoting from memory, which I don't trust from time to time. My home water is 110ppm so I run through a carbon filter but skip the softener. Then descale once a year for preventative maintenance. Once you do it a couple of times, it gets quite easy.

[lparsons21]

That depends on what your hardness lever is. There is a certain amount of hardness needed for proper extraction. I believe it is around 100ppm but I am quoting from memory, which I don't trust from time to time. My home water is 110ppm so I run through a carbon filter but skip the softener. Then descale once a year for preventative maintenance. Once you do it a couple of times, it gets quite easy.

True. Here's where it gets fun. There are so many ways to express hardness. My local does it in mg/liter and grains. My water is listed as 8 grains, but upon testing it was less than that. It is considered on the soft side. I put a water Ion water softener in the line and get excellent extractions with the more soft water.

From everything I read you want water that is considered soft, but not too soft.

[Psyd]

Hey Chris, I'm looking to replace my hulking two group Astoria with another machine that'll do the same thing (pull two to eight doubles a day, and hot water for oatmeal, tea, and the occasional hot cocoa in the evening) round the clock. Presently, I have twelve liters of hot water on standby, and the HX flush requires more water than the next two doppios I will pull.
Will the Alex be safe and happy left on 24/7? What's the draw (amperage-wise) with the pump running with the heater on?

[Psyd]

More questions came up at the AZ Barista Jam. Myself, Bill(the one that brought the Synesso?), Bill (EspressoWrench), and I believe Larry from Rocket may have been involved with the conversation (I was pretty caffeinated and tired at the same time, so you'll have to excuse me if I got the players wrong) were discussing a rotary that was capable of switching from the city's pressure to a reservoir. Does the pump have to be reset betwixt the two? Isn't a rotary pump that is getting, say, three Bar just adding to that three Bar and making nine? (Eight and a half, ten, whatever is your personal preference...) And when you switch over to the pourover, wouldn't you be at something like six?
Anyone out there tried theirs on both plumbing and res? Is the adjustment a tricky thing, or non-existent.
And I'd still love to know the manufacturer's and dealer's take on the 24/7 operation. Anyone have an owners manual out there that mentions it?

[lparsons21]

There is no adjustment needed when switching over.

I used mine as a pourover for all of one day and the pump pressure was just a tad over 9 bar. As a plumbin, with 4 bars of static pressure, the pump pressure is still just a tad over 9 bar.

The difference is in the pre-infusion.

In pourover mode, the pump ramps up from zero and gives a pre-infusion in the process (I think)

In plumbin, I suspect that the auto preinfusion is either not there or quicker, but you can manually preinfuse by moving the lever to the midpoint and pausing before engaging the pump.

[cannonfodder]

A rotary pumps output pressure varies based on the input pressure. That is why it is so important to have a regulated input on your rotary. If I run my rotary at 1 bar input and 8 bar brew, then increase the input pressure to two bar my brew pressure will increase close to 9 bar. If you go from a static tank to a positive pressure input, you will have to readjust your pump.

[lparsons21]

A rotary pumps output pressure varies based on the input pressure. That is why it is so important to have a regulated input on your rotary. If I run my rotary at 1 bar input and 8 bar brew, then increase the input pressure to two bar my brew pressure will increase close to 9 bar. If you go from a static tank to a positive pressure input, you will have to readjust your pump.

I just checked since switching over is so easy on the Alex.

I stand corrected. There is a change.

With pourover - brew pressure is 8.6 bar
With plumbin at 4bar - brew pressure is 9.1 bar