After 4 years of making espresso at home, I still suck.

[gags22]

Hi all--I'm new to this site, and in search of help. In 2003, I bought a Gaggia Carezza, and a Solis Maestro grinder, and began my quest for espresso nirvana. Initially, I read up on the 'golden rule', and even got out the bathroom scale to make sure I knew what 30 lbs. of pressure felt like. After four years, I'm no closer to my goal than when I started, and now I'm finally seeking the help I need. You people are fanatical, and I think you can help me (btw, I'm as fanatical about pizza as you all are about coffee, so I know where you're coming from).

So, my Solis is set on an extremely fine grind, and it is pretty much consistent day in and day out. It's also NOT adjustable as the cheap tabs that hold the hopper on have long since busted. But as I said, it's a very fine, consistent grind. When I first bought the machine, I paid $30 or so for a high quality, heavy tamper somewhere out of Seattle. It's flat-bottomed. I always make double shots--no singles. I neither weigh nor measure the amount of espresso I use (which I'm certain is a mistake). I usually grind enough to fill my portafilter over the edge slightly, tamp once with medium pressure....then knock a few times, then do a final tamp at/around 30 lbs., and do a no-pressure twist to polish. Then I clean the edges of any excess grounds. I let the Carezza heat up for anywhere from 5-30 minutes (I have 4 kids, so I get distracted sometimes). Anyway, I get crema maybe once out of 5 times making a shot, and even then it's so thin that if I breathe within 50 feet of my cup, it's gone.

I've seen some videos of what you guys are capable of, and I want to be able to do that! I'm sure there are NUMEROUS threads that exist already that can help me, but I think I'd spend a week trying to weed through and find what I really need to know. I would greatly appreciate any help you can afford me.

Tks,
Jeff

(I am well aware that both my machine and my grinder could use an upgrade, but as that's not in the near future, I'd appreciate help with my lackluster technique, not suggestions on what to buy to fix my problem)

[Gabelstaplerfahrer]

You don't mention the beans you're using. You grind your beans but what beans do you use? I tried and tried and tried but I only got good crema when I started using fresher beans. At a certain point I even started home roasting and that's when it truly started to look like all those naked pours you see on this website. Now I can get pours like that with less fresh beans too, but that only happens when using the Weiss Distribution Technique. Google that and you have some technique to master!

[luca]

Hi Jeff,

It sounds like you know that the grinder is the problem. I'm sure that being up to scratch with the forums you know the importance of fresh coffee.

I think that if you want anything to improve, you are going to have to be quite anal about working out what all of the variables are. This means shotglass and stopwatch time. You will make more headway spending an hour pulling shots in succession and changing one variable at a time than you will if you just go about making the regular coffees that you do in a day, so it might be worthwhile getting a bag of coffee, setting aside some time and considering it an investment. You're also going to have to make sure that you give the machine enough time to reach a consistent temperature.

OK, if you can't change the grind, all that you can do is to change the dose. The technique that I have found the most consistent has been to grind into the portafilter, rap it a few times to settle the coffee, grind more if I need it, then strike the excess off level. For a lower dose, I just grind and strike off level. If I were you, I would experiment with those two doses. Time the shots and measure the volume. There is no way around it. Using the double basket, if you get less than 30mL in 30 seconds (ie. a ristretto type shot), you will need to lower your dose, which might even mean scooping some coffee out. If you get more than 60mL in 30 seconds, you will need to increase your dose.

Once you have gotten a decent shot volume and time, you can start worrying about brew temperature. It's worthwhile extracting a shot immediately after the heating element turns off (hottest point in the cycle) and comparing it with one extracted a few minutes after the element turns off (colder). You can even turn on the steam switch to heat up the boiler a bit more after the thermostat cuts the heater off ... but all of this is basically entirely irrelevant if you can't get within the volume/time ballpark.

Espresso isn't rocket science, but it does require a bit of attention to detail. Not being able to adjust your grind setting really is quite bad. If you aren't fortunate enough that your sole grind setting is pretty much spot on, I don't really see how we can delude you into thinking that you are going to get even passable results.

Report back and let us know what volume/time you're getting and what coffee you're using.

Good luck!

Luca

[gags22]

Ok, so I am using Wegmans brand beans (my local supermarket here in Roch) and they're never more than a week and a half old...that's how long it takes me to go through a bag. I buy the whole bean espresso roast.

As for extraction, I'd say I get 2 oz. in about 15-18 seconds, which I know is too fast. But when I tamp harder to try to slow down the extraction time, I often get water dripping out of the portafilter itself, and the espresso that comes out is really watery, which makes no sense to me. I never get mousetails.

Let me know if you need more info.

Tks,
Jeff

[Bushrod]

But do you know when the beans were roasted? Chances are they are old and stale when you buy them!

[gags22]

No--I have no earthly idea when they were roasted. So how can I buy fresher beans (without investing tons of money into roasting my own)?

[Randy G.]

You need to become as obsessive about your espresso as you are about your pizza:

1) Unless the store is roasting on site, or having it delivered on the day it is roasted, your coffee beans are a lot older than 1-1/2 weeks at the end of the bag/can/whatever they come in. You need coffee that can be consumed within two weeks of the ROASTED date. Basic "rule" is that if a coffee says "best if used by..." the beans are probably already stale. I have seen beans packed that way with a date that is nearly a year off! I try not to keep green coffee that long. Since you are in the NY area, there are plenty of shops that roast on site. Find some roasted coffee that is actually fresh. If all else is equal, if the coffee is bad, try another brand of beans. If all else fails, try a can of Illy whole espresso beans. They taste decent for a day or two after opening the can, but still, there are better choices.

2) The grinder is the most important part of the tool equation, and the Maestro was a marginal grinder for espresso when new and working properly. Yours sounds totally unsuitable now that it is broken, and after 4 years of use probably at least a bit worn. If you are not willing to either get and use a quality hand grinder (an older Zass or similar) or a better electric grinder, your efforts are going to be wasted to a great extent no matter what else you do. A good electric grinder, new, will run at least $250 (around that, anyway) and it sounds like that is not going to happen for you at this point. I have made good espresso with a $10 thrift-store espresso machine, but it was paired with a good grinder.

3) The thin coffee even with hard tamping shows that you are having difficulty with distribution. There are resources on this site that can help. If you are not ready to spend the time to learn, you never will... learn. Espresso is not something that you can get good at in a short time. Like any other form of food creation, it is an ongoing quest that takes a lifetime. Seven years ago, almost to the day, I was shipping for my first espresso machine. I am still learning. If you aren't willing to spend the time learning, why should we spend the time teaching you?

4) At this point, I would suggest that you put the espresso machine off to the side and get an Aerobie Aeropress. At about $30 delivered, it is quite affordable, it works great over a wide range of parameters, and your grinder is more than sufficient for that device. If that does not make a good cup for you, then you either need to get a better coffee bean or you just do not like coffee. No, it doesn't make espresso, but it does make good coffee, and good coffee of any type is better than bad espresso.

To be frank and honest, your post reads like a troll. I say that because so many of your problems are those that are faced by someone just starting out in the world of espresso. When i started out I already knew the solutions to most of your difficulties before my first machine arrived. How? I did the research and lots of reading. I suggest you do the same. Otherwise all this time is wasted.

What if I said to you: "I have been making pizza at home for years now and can't seem to find one that tastes good to me. I have tried every frozen pizza I can find, and I cook them fresh-- as soon as they thaw out, but they still all taste like cardboard. What should I do?" That is what your post sounds like to me....

Not trying to be harsh or rude-- just an attempt at being realistic and honest.

[gags22]

Randy--why are you yelling at me? I'm just kidding, man....but if I wasn't willing to learn, I wouldn't have come seeking your advice. So I am humbly listening to what you are saying--and don't worry about sounding harsh/rude--I'm impossible to offend.

I hear what you're saying about the grinder. But do you think if I spent that kind of money on a decent grinder that I could produce great results even with the Carezza, or is that unsuitable too? I'm not opposed to spending that much, but to spend that AND a bunch on a new machine is not in the budget. So if my results will improve dramatically with JUST a new grinder, I would do that. Can you recommend a handful in the sub-$300 price range, and I'll do some research?

As for distribution, I read about the WDT, and actually tried it this morning. No difference in results, but I will still try it going forward.

Regarding your pizza problem...I would suggest making a traditional California pizza.....you know, empty your refrigerator and throw everything right on the pizza (peppers, feta, ham, pineapple, garlic, thousand island dressing). Deeeeeee-lish!

Jeff

[Bushrod]

AND fresh beans!

I just order mine on the internet. Intelligentsia or Metropolis are good places to start.

[TimEggers]

But do you think if I spent that kind of money on a decent grinder that I could produce great results even with the Carezza, or is that unsuitable too?

Oh heavens yes! Take a look at this shot it was made with a $200 Gaggia Coffee and my $245 (ebay) Mazzer Super Jolly and home roasted beans (any fresh beans will do):

[gvideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3060542341819291609&hl=en[/gvideo]

I myself went from a Solis Maestro Plus to a Rancilio Rocky then to the Mazzer and the Mazzer was best hands down. Check ebay as many Mazzers go for $200-$300. They also in my opinion out perform the Rocky (even when my Rocky was new). I got my grinder off ebay, cleaned it and gave it a quick coat of paint. I have less than $260 invested in it!

[Randy G.]

.....and don't worry about sounding harsh/rude--I'm impossible to offend.

That's only because you haven't met me!

I hear what you're saying about the grinder. But do you think if I spent that kind of money on a decent grinder that I could produce great results even with the Carezza, or is that unsuitable too?

I have not used the Gaggia Carezza, and am personally not a fan due to their aluminum boilers and imbedded heating elements (others like them). I do own a Krups 863 (see http://home.surewest.net/frcn/Coffee/Coffee80.html):

I keep it around as an emergency spare... and as a paper weight.
Spec-wise, the Gaggia should perform as well as or better than the Krups. The Krups has a thermoblock heater and smaller, aluminum portafilter. Based on that, it would seem that the grinder and the coffee are your weak points at this time.

Can you recommend a handful in the sub-$300 price range, and I'll do some research?

The Gaggia MDF at around $199 delivered is probably the best deal for the money, although I have not used it:
http://www.livingincomfort.com/gamdfprcobeg.html
or
http://gogoespresso.com/Gaggia-80...h/M/B0001KOA7S.htm
or at le Target:
here

The next step is:
Cunill Tranquillo for about $220 - http://sovrana.stores.yahoo.net/esgrin.html

After that, I don't know, but the one entry-level espresso grinder that is most recommended is the Rancilio Rocky is the next step, at about $310-320 or so.

A good grinder can be a lifetime investment. All the better ones have replaceable burrs.

You may wish to look for a used commercial grinder on eBay. After choosing a grinder, call the various resellers and see if they have any demos, or returns at a good price. Whatever you choose, check the user reviews at coffeegeek.com to see what users think.

[JohnPark]

I'll take this slightly off topic for a moment, could you tell me more about being a pizza obsessive? Do you have a wood oven? Are there forums for pizza freaks?
Thanks,
JP

[gags22]

Sure thing--check out http://www.pizzamaking.com. Go into the forums, and I personally like the NY Style forum. You'll find that the people that frequent this website take pizza making every bit as serious (if not more) as the people here take espresso.

Jeff

[gags22]

Okay, so after reading the above, I thought I'd give the 'fresh bean' theory a shot. In Rochester, we have a local roaster named Java Joe (some of you may have heard of his coffee) that sells coffee in the public market. On my way home from work, I stopped in there--the place was all smoky because he was roasting beans. I had a lengthy conversation with a lady there, and she had a VERY expensive Mazzer (not sure which model, but pretty sure it costs more than my house). I explained my trials and tribulations, and she went through her double shot process, which is very much the same as the way many of you do it according to this site. Then she ground some beans for me to both compare to my grind at home, and to then make a shot with. I then bought a half pound of beans that were green not 2 days ago, and were roasted yesterday.

So.......I got home, and using my fingers I felt both her grind, and my own. No discernible difference to me. Good news, as I can't make any adjustments. I made a double shot with her grind, and........wow. Mousetails, perfect amount of time, FANTASTIC crema. A million times better than anything I've seen in the last 4 years. But still not out of the woods, as this was not done with my grinder. So I made one more shot, this time using the crappy Solis Maestro. Same results--AWESOME!

Thanks all for the help. I'm not saying that my grinder and machine are fine--I definitely need to upgrade within the next year. But no more supermarket beans for me. I will be buying fresh roasted from now on!

Jeff

[Randy G.]

.............. I then bought a half pound of beans that were green not 2 days ago, and were roasted yesterday.... I made a double shot with her grind, and........wow. Mousetails, perfect amount of time, FANTASTIC crema. A million times better than anything I've seen in the last 4 years. ......... I made one more shot, this time using the crappy Solis Maestro. Same results--AWESOME!....... no more supermarket beans for me. I will be buying fresh roasted from now on!

Who would have thought that using good coffee could make a difference!?

Just like pizza, the ingredients matter.. After all, espresso is two things- coffee and water!

Glad we could help- And check eBay as there are two Mazzers Super Jollys there currently. The most expensive mazzer sells for about $2000, so I hope your home is worth more than that.

And by the way, if you contact Baratza they may be able to help you with replacement parts since they were the designer and importer of your grinder. Nice folks as well

[JohnPark]

That's great Jeff! I have a roaster here (Supreme Bean) in North Hollywood -- I often get my beans from him the day they were roasted, and have to wait a couple more days for the gases to settle, or I get pretty fizzy crema. Three days after roast it's amazing. Two weeks later I notice that it has lost a bit of its thickness. So, as you can see, it's a very narrow window for awesome espresso!
-JP

[jesawdy]

Just some comments after having read this thread...

Yes, fresh coffee matters. I would recommend that you try some mail order coffees from some of the HB site sponsors. (See the Commerce section of the Resources page). Some of the roasters also offer bulk purchase quantities. For my coffee "club" at work, I have started to order 5 lbs and I split the coffee up in Mason jars and freeze it as soon as it arrives. I pull out what I need as I need it and it remains plenty fresh. See the Article Coffee: To Freeze or Not to Freeze.

On the grinder, Baratza at one time offered some free or nearly free replacement parts for broken tabs, see their website for more details. http://www.baratza.com

My vote for the best inexpensive grinder (other than a hand powered grinder) is a used Mazzer Super Jolly as already suggested. Watch eBay, you can find them for $250 shipped with patience. New burrs are $25-35 and will last you a very long time. The stock hopper is huge, but you can easily run it without a hopper or with a smaller hopper, I use a paper cup.


Used Mazzer Super Jolly

[CGP4]

Baratza has fantastic customer service. Early Maestros had thin tabs that would break (like yours); there a upgrade kit with thicker tabs that's free for the asking:

http://www.baratza.com/solis_faq.php

Just email Joe!

[gags22]

Thanks for the tip--I just emailed Joe. This is my new favorite website. Thanks again all for the help. I'm on my way.

[peacecup]

Budget grinder that will make mousetails:

http://www.home-barista.com/forum...o-essay-t4482.html

If you're getting water over the PF when you tamp hard/dose full your brewhead gasket may be bad - very common problem and a cheap fix.

If you love espresso, do not give up by any means! Patience, fresh beans, and one or all of 1) a finer grind, 2) a fuller dose, 3) a harder tamp.

PC