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Accumulating small improvements in Idaho

Want to talk espresso but not sure which forum? If so, this is the right one.

Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by another_jim on Sat Sep 15, 2007 8:20 pm

Everyone loves the big dramatic change. But home espresso more often is like saving for retirement -- adding a little bit every day works a lot better than waiting for the lottery win (or a GS3). A problem is that individually, each little improvements is too small to taste on its own. You need faith that improvements do in fact accumulate, rather than being ridiculous circles where this year's merely undo last year's.

One way of reassuring yourself is to invite me over every few years ;-) I haven't visited Ken Fox for about a year and a half. When I tasted the first few shots, I was amazed at how much the espresso had improved. His shots had been good a few years back, but now they were top class, as good as I was getting anywhere.

Ken has made quite a few changes since then. Like everyone else, he's taking advantage of the better greens now available. He's changed his roasting profiles to bring out the best from them. He's changed over to higher end grinders. He's tweaked the temperature management on his PIDed machines. And he's changed dose.

We didn't do any formal testing, but we did a few sets of blind shots. The biggest two differences is going to better coffee and better roasting profiles. This resulted in shot differences that were large enough to be clear on every single shot to both of us. Trust me, everyone who's ever done blind testing knows this means the difference is very large.

The difference made by better temperature management, changing dose, and grinders are more subtle. The shots clearly taste different. To Ken, who is accustomed to the coffees, his current dose, grinders, etc seem right, while to me they mostly seemed different but not better.

To some extent, it's an accumulation of small improvements. But if I had to give weights to everything, I'd say the coffee and the roast are the big things, while the mano, maccina, and machina changes are, to a large extent, about best accomodating the improved coffees.

And talking about improved coffees ... Here's a video of us taking on a three year old frozen decaf that Ken dug out of his freezer ...

[gvideo]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=338749232582330376[/gvideo]
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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by cannonfodder on Sun Sep 16, 2007 8:33 pm

LOL, 3 year old decaf. If you ground up the burlap bad the coffee was shipped in, it would have tasted better.
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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by RegulatorJohnson on Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:55 pm

i bet it would have tasted better if you used the spouts... :D :D

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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by Ken Fox on Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:14 pm

Jim's visit, like all the prior ones, was a most welcome respite from the day to day mundaneness of my life :P

One thing that Jim didn't really comment upon was the fact that there were essentially no sink shots made during his visit here, something I attribute to using ~14g doses as opposed to the larger doses I used to use. Since he is doing more or less the same thing chez lui, he probably considers this normal.

The 3 year old jar of frozen decaf blend was something I discovered while rearranging the contents of my freezers. When one has chest freezers, even moreso if one has more than one, it is necessary to "rotate one's stock" or you risk finding things like .. . . . . . 3 year old jars of frozen decaf. My first inclination was to toss it straight in the trash but I decided later that it might have "historical" interest. Although Jim and I used to roast and drink decaf, those days are long gone. This particular jar was probably roasted in anticipation of a family visit. There are members of my own family who don't drink anything other than decaf and one tries to be accommodating . . . . .

Anyway, I'm hoping that this is my one and only starring role in a youtube video.

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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by another_jim on Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:48 pm

Ken Fox wrote:One thing that Jim didn't really comment upon was the fact that there were essentially no sink shots made during his visit here, something I attribute to using ~14g doses as opposed to the larger doses I used to use. Since he is doing more or less the same thing chez lui, he probably considers this normal.


Lots of sink-lookers a chez moi; only 15% or so are sink-tasters
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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by Fullsack on Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:49 pm

Jim,
Don't know where in Idaho Ken is, but if you didn't get a chance to drop by Diedrich, you really missed something. I just finished day 1 of their roasting class, given by Steve Diedrich, and I'm duly impressed.

Thanks Ken, for providing the link.

http://www.diedrichroasters.com/homeroast.html
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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by Ken Fox on Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:12 pm

Fullsack wrote:Jim,
Don't know where in Idaho Ken is, but if you didn't get a chance to drop by Diedrich, you really missed something. I just finished day 1 of their roasting class, given by Steve Diedrich, and I'm duly impressed.

Thanks Ken, for providing the link.

http://www.diedrichroasters.com/homeroast.html


I'm in south central Idaho; you could drive to the Diedrich plant in a lot less time from Seattle Washington than from my house.

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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by HB on Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:59 pm

Thanks for the video gentlemen, I enjoyed a good laugh. :lol:

another_jim wrote:Lots of sink-lookers a chez moi; only 15% or so are sink-tasters

Now I know what the next homepage poll will be...
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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by cafeIKE on Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:42 pm

HB wrote:Now I know what the next homepage poll will be...


Do you set your timer to count up or down :?:
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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by RegulatorJohnson on Tue Sep 18, 2007 4:57 pm

HB wrote:Now I know what the next homepage poll will be...


why do you use a naked portafilter? :?: :?:
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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by another_jim on Tue Sep 18, 2007 5:45 pm

cannonfodder wrote:LOL, 3 year old decaf. If you ground up the burlap bad the coffee was shipped in, it would have tasted better.


It had a few surprises. The dry aroma of decaf is usually awful (something dead and dry, a corpse that's gone a bit past decomposing perhaps), and one mostly catches a whiff of this in the cup too. In my experience, this always got worse as the coffee staled, so when I did decaf, I'd roast a small batch every few days. This frozen stuff nearly didn't have that smell; in fact it didn't have much of any aroma or acidity at all. It didn't taste unpleasant, just generic dark caramel and roast; in other words, most of the taste was missing, like getting salt water instead of soup.

I have a feeling this may be the secret of robusta blends, both here and in Italy. Roast the heck out of the coffee, then let it stale a month. By then everything offensive has evaporated, and one is left with only generic coffee flavors.
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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by Stuggi on Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:59 am

Not really, cause I dialed in my Pavoni using a "napolitan" roasted coffee, with high "premium" robusta, that was atleast several months old when I got it. I thought the charcoal flavor was a technique flaw on my part, turned out to be the coffee (that charcoal flavor was present in coffee made from drip brewer, french press, espresso, you name it.).

BUT, since this is a napolitan roast, I'll age it for a while (after all, I have 1 kg of this crap) and see how it turns out. I even have a jar in the frezeer which was put there the day I opened the bag.
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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by another_jim on Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:09 pm

Stuggi wrote:Not really, cause I dialed in my Pavoni using a "napolitan" roasted coffee, with high "premium" robusta, that was atleast several months old when I got it. I thought the charcoal flavor was a technique flaw on my part, turned out to be the coffee (that charcoal flavor was present in coffee made from drip brewer, french press, espresso, you name it.).


In the US, "Neapolitan roasted" is the trade name for charcoal. If I remember my chemistry right, that flavor will never evaporate. You could add some barley mash, distill it, and see if it tastes like an Orkney malt.
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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by cannonfodder on Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:14 pm

It makes good fertilizer for your tomato plants, they like the acidity.
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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by Stuggi on Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:21 pm

No acid here mate, just plain old charcoal.

I should really send you people some samples, cause this stuff is not only horrid, but costs 27 € per kilogram!
There's one plus with it though, no matter what you do to it, it will still produce crema, and loads of it.
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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by cannonfodder on Sun Sep 23, 2007 8:04 pm

I am not saying that all dark roasts are bad. In fact I have had a couple of good ones, let me underscore 'a couple'. There are a few beans that will take a dark roast but getting to that point with carbonizing the coffee takes a master at his craft.

Crema, stuff enough Robusta in and even Folgers will produce a lot of crema. Getting 100% crema from a 100% Arabica blend, that is the ticket.
Image

The tomato fertilizer, coffee has a slightly acidic ph, not flavor acidity but old school acid/base acidic. Tomato's like slightly acidic soil. I dump all my spent coffee in the flower bed.
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Link to "Accumulating small improvements in Idaho"by Stuggi on Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:34 pm

I'm not saying that that's bad either, I enjoy my nearly carbonized Kenya AA coffee that I roast, not just that crap I was stupid to buy a kilo of.

It comes down to the same old thing, coffee's too complex to be easily categorized.
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