49mm Baskets for Olympias

[farmroast]

I have what I believe is an original Olympia single basket (came with my used Cremina) and a unknown DBL. (my brother got it for me a couple +years ago and doesn't remember where) My standard 49mm Reg. Barber fits nicely in the single with just enough play but the dbl. is a little too loose. I mainly use the dbl. and was thinking about getting a custom tamper for a better fit. Before I did that I was wondering if there were any other dbl. basket choices and which one is the best to go with. Or should I try to find an (or 2) OEM Olympia dbl. if possible. I will be using it on my bottomless from Richard with my Cremina and Maximatic. thanks, Ed

[KarlSchneider]

Hi Ed,

Filter baskets are made to a rather wide tolerance so the differences you note are normal. I have two different size (in terms of height) Olympia double baskets and I believe there may be more. The same seems to be true for single baskets. Inside diameters vary as well. There are custom tamper sizes if you want hem.

It is not easy to find OEM Olympia baskets, and/or they are rather expensive. The 49 mm baskets made for the Elektra Micro casa a leva fit and work in Olympia machines. They are more widely available and not so expensive.

Your new Coffex looks great.

KS

[farmroast]

thanks Carl I'm really liking the Coffex. It is such a simple machine that can produce some excellent results. Which of the baskets that will fit is the deepest (largest capacity) and should I consider that factor. Ed

[mogogear]

Howdy ed,
I will echo Karls comment- The Coffex is truly a great find.A beautiful machine! I have its sister, a Maximatic- the same year as yours but not quite as perfect. Mine also came with the original box and foam inserts! They are so close in detail that I almost think they just changed names.. from one to the other? Your wiring shots of the top, down to the wire color are identical to mine.

I have a newd from Richard and some Cremina PF that I have used on my MAX( I just rebuilt it!) I have used the original Oly dbl basket and the Elektra basket in both PF with no problem.

The Elektra basket is the deepest and largest basket of all three of the baskets I know fit. The old La PAvoni 49mm basket, the Elktra Microcasa aLeva and the original of course. (Also 49mm baskets for the Bezzera Family Club lever also fit. But they are probably more rare to find.)

The rims of the Elektra and LP need to be worked on a bit as they flare a tad more that the original Oly basket. Not hard but that always depends on who is doing the work.....

Also for what its worth - I currently have my PStat set to a max pressure of 1.0 bar. Kicks on at .85bar. I have to grind a bit more coarsely than I use for the Cremina( a 1985).

What a nice avatar shot to boot!

\Enjoy!

[farmroast]

Greg... I did have to sand down the outside edge of the rim a bit because it was catching in the group. So the dbl I have might be an Elektra .

[KarlSchneider]

Hi Ed,

While Greg and others report a need to modify the Elektra 49mm baskets to use in a Cremina I have not had that experience. I use my Elektra baskets as they came in my Cremina. I have had the reverse problem. Some Cremina baskets do not seem to work in the Elektra. Some Cremina baskets protrude too far above the top of the Elektra pf and this seems to encourage the pf backing out of the group if one has ground too finely or otherwise has too much pressure / too slow a shot.

I do notice that the Elektra double basket fits very snugly in both the Elektra pf and in the Cremina pf and has to be pried out. I do not use the spring clip to hold the basket in place. The Cremina baskets can be lifted out with fingers alone and need no leverage.



In my experience the greatest problem with the Elektra double basket is that it encourages over-dosing due to its capacity. I get better shots from both the Micro casa a leva and the Cremina if I use smaller doses rather than higher.

KS

[mogogear]

Hi Ed,

While Greg and others report a need to modify the Elektra 49mm baskets to use in a Cremina I have not had that experience.
KS

Karls point is a valid one- it just seems they "hang" in the group upon removal to dump the puck. I was probably unclear on my motivation....

I absolutely agree the tendency to over overdose since the basket is bigger is too easy to do....

[farmroast]

Karl Thanks for the picture. Interesting that the Elektra double is so much deeper than the Oly and the Oly single is so much larger than the Elektra single. I have the Elektra dbl. and the Oly single, so with a little smaller dose in it will the added head room have an effect? I have not tried the Oly single in the Maxi yet. Which dbl. do you tend to use and why? Does your choice change between the Cremina and the Maxi.? thanks, Ed
PS I'm finding that the two Olys are a nice compliment to each other and that they together take up the same footprint as an average pump. What a nice pairing!
PS2 What basket came with the early Livietta 49mm? was it an OEM oly?

[KarlSchneider]

Karl Thanks for the picture. Interesting that the Elektra double is so much deeper than the Oly and the Oly single is so much larger than the Elektra single. I have the Elektra dbl. and the Oly single, so with a little smaller dose in it will the added head room have an effect? I have not tried the Oly single in the Maxi yet. Which dbl. do you tend to use and why? Does your choice change between the Cremina and the Maxi.? thanks, Ed
PS I'm finding that the two Olys are a nice compliment to each other and that they together take up the same footprint as an average pump. What a nice pairing!
PS2 What basket came with the early Livietta 49mm? was it an OEM oly?

Hi Ed,

I have two Olympia doubles that I use (and one that I do not) and two Elektra doubles that I use. I use all four daily and interchangeably. I dose and tamp into a basket removed from the pf. 95% of these are done in the Microcasa a leva to make Americanos. These are double pulls. The Microcasa a leva makes far better Americanos for my taste.

For espresso I use a single basket and a single pull. I have two Elektra singles and two Olympias. I use these interchangeably as well. I use the Microcasa a leva 55/45 vs. the Cremina for espresso depending on the coffee I have roasted.

As long as the baskets fit i use them. The only close call is in the Microcasa a leva and some doubles in Cremina baskets since they are shallower.

Unfortunately I have no experience with a Maximatic/Coffex/Livetta. Your two machine setup is really appealing. I think my two-group Microcasa a leva/Cremina is the ultimate home machine.

KS

[farmroast]

Thanks Karl and well said.

[mogogear]

I knew I had a shot of the three different baskets I had been using.
L= Elektra
C=Bezzera ( Family Club )
R=Olympia

All 49mm

It is time to take Karls lead and get familiar with my single baskets again..

Karl- what is you recommendation for dose, grind and tamp changes you employ in contract to use of the double basket in the Cremna if you would share ....?

[caeffe]

great family shot.
mogo - you wouldn't happen to have a 49mm Europiccola basket too would you? I'm curious how it would compare with those baskets.

I bought an Elektra basket for my basketless picolla and "crimped" the edges in but somehow I still can't get it in the grouphead. I'm thinking the basket is a skosh too high. I've ordered a Europiccola basket and once that arrives I'll see if I can post a picture of the two.

[farmroast]

I just got an Elektra dbl. and it turns out the dbl. I had must be an Olympia. I rough measure the Elektra at 25mm deep and the dbl. I had at 21mm deep. I also did a fluid measurement with the three baskets, The Elektra dbl. held 50ml, the 21mm deep dbl. held 43ml, and the oly single held 35ml of water. There is also less taper and more holes with the Elektra. I tried the Olympia single with the Coffex last night with some really nice results. Been working on my coffee station and power so I can run the coffex, cremina and major at the same time. My house is over 250 years old so outlets and power are often a challenge.

[KarlSchneider]

It is time to take Karls lead and get familiar with my single baskets again..

Karl- what is you recommendation for dose, grind and tamp changes you employ in contract to use of the double basket in the Cremna if you would share ....?

Greg,

I am glad to share. I dose by volume not weight. I use one of Les Abjerg's scoops to dose.




I do occasionally weigh my doses and generally am close to the classic guidelines.

The Istituto Nazionale Espresso Italiano, http://www.espressoitaliano.org defines espresso as follows:

Necessary portion of ground coffee = 7 g ± 0,5
Exit temperature of water from the unit = 88°C ± 2°C
Temperature of the drink in the cup = 67°C ± 3°C
Entry water pressure = 9 bar ± 1
Percolation time = 25 seconds ± 2.5 seconds
Viscosity at = 45°C > 1.5 mPa s
Total fat = > 2 mg/ml
Caffeine = 100 mg/cup
Millilitres in the cup (including foam) = 25 ml ± 2.5

While it is widespread to dispute these numbers I find they are a great starting point. Tonight my weights were a bit higher than these at 7.9 - 8.5 g. Double basket shots have ca. 12 g.

I like Les's tampers in the single baskets because they have a less sharp edge on the bottom than metal tampers and seem to better fit the shape of a single basket at the point where they narrow. I use my TORR tamper in double basket shots.

As far as tamp pressure I have no measures but guess a 30#. More important to me is to adjust grind + tamp to get the 25 sec. percolation time specified by the INEI.

Hope this helps.

KS

[welone]

Hello there

I'm new to the lever thing, got my hands on a 67' cremina (built in 74') last week. Along with it came some more baskets and since that makes now 5 different doubles and 2 singles, I thought it might be useful to post a pic and their specs. altough two of the doubles are admittedly very similar.

the elektra double and the unknown single only fit into my maximatic (without force!) when perfectly aligned and precisely upright inserted - which is a real pain to do. but they fit without fuss on the cremina. my 49mm torr tamper has a good fit for all baskets except the two baskets I got with the cremina.



the volume was estimated, by filling them up with granulate sugar and then converting this weight into volume (by means of a 4-point calibration 'sugar vs water')

greets

marco

[KarlSchneider]

Marco,

Thanks for the pics and measurements. I currently have Olympia single baskets in 3 different shapes. I also have Olympia double baskets in at least 2 sizes/shapes. Perhaps this weekend I can post a pic of them.

My belief continues that filter baskets will vary significantly as companies outsource them on a regular basis.

KS

[rawman]

I was over at Mark Hoy's house last weekend again with my Elektra Mcal, and Cremina 2002. We compared the basket size of these machines to his Elektra double basket size.

First thing I noticed was that my MCAL double basket would not even fit into the PF of either his Mcal, or my Cremina. Way too big. Clearly his MCAL double is totally different from mine.

Mark drew up the measurements, here:

The older MCAL is much bigger than the Cremina, as most users here have noted. What surprised me was the difference between his MCAL double and my MCAL..





I realize that the baskets vary in size, but has anyone seen MCAL baskets this big before? It is much wider. I can understand variations in tolerances, but for the basket not to even come close to fitting in the other sized PFs really surprised me. So I want to purchase a MCAL double for the Cremina. Are most people finding that the MCAL double baskets they get (from 1st line) are closer to size of the older MCAL? or close to the new MCAL???

[nixreich]

Hi All

Oh that's a great thread, because i have exactly this problem since yesterday.
Yesterday i FOUND a Olympia Club in trash - all included expect the baskets.

Olympia sell the baskets, but they cost 58$ , i thought i have to spend this money, but after your studies that's not nessesary, thank you

best regards from switzerland
nils

[msmacchiato]

I love these "I found it in the trash" tales! I used to walk the alleys on my way to 1st grade just to look in the trash - and I still am a gleaner. That's where the real gratitude lists originate!

[nixreich]

oh no, it was not like an adventure.
i work at a big art school and every year they have to clean rooms an replace "old" computers and forgotten stuff while students are away.
trashed computers are on a defined place, it's not difficult, because my way often is next this trashed stuff and between august and september it's important to have a look shortly inside, because often there are real treasures between waste!