Buyer's Guide to the La Spaziale Vivaldi II

by **woodchuck** on Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:32 pm

Home-Barista.com reviewed the La Spaziale S1 when it was first released back in April 2005. By all accounts, the La Spaziale S1 was a very successful espresso machine with Chris' Coffee Service selling over 500 units before introducing the Vivaldi II.

Over the years, Chris' Coffee Service has worked closely with La Spaziale to refine the product line based on feedback from consumers. These incremental changes in conjunction with the recent additions of programmable preinfusion and programmable temperature offset differential prompted us to update the buyer's guide with a fresh look at the La Spaziale Vivaldi II. I'll revisit the original review, including comparisons with a representative espresso machines typically on an aficionado's short list.

More...

by **Lockman** on Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:36 pm

Great review Ian!

I am seriously considering this machine. Have you got the drain option hooked up to your home S1?
Is the 40 minute warm up for both boilers from room temp? I hear the timer is a bit of a pita and that you cannot use a "normal" timer but than again, that would not be a huge difference to me being self employed and a bit of a tea drinker as well. Both myself and my GF like the milk aspects of espresso so it would be hard to beat the DB devices.

Thanks again!

Jeff

by **JohnB.** on Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:03 pm

Lockman wrote:Great review Ian!

I am seriously considering this machine. Have you got the drain option hooked up to your home S1?
Is the 40 minute warm up for both boilers from room temp? I hear the timer is a bit of a pita and that you cannot use a "normal" timer but than again, that would not be a huge difference to me being self employed and a bit of a tea drinker as well. Both myself and my GF like the milk aspects of espresso so it would be hard to beat the DB devices.

Thanks again!

Jeff

Both boilers will be up to temp within 10 minutes in 20a mode but you are waiting for the rest of the machine to warm up. 30 minutes is probably long enough but I usually end up with a 1-1.5 hour warm up as my wife turns on the machine for me when she goes to work.

I don't use the tray drain option on mine as the tray is very easy to pull out & replace. I've had up to 48 ozs in the tray & still made it to the sink without spilling anything. There are issues with the drain line which you might want to discuss with the folks at CC if you decide to buy the S1.

by **jpreiser** on Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:10 pm

I've had my S1V2 for about 1 month now and am very happy with my decision.

I don't have the drain option since the machine is near a sink and the tray is easy to remove and dump. What little I've read about the stock option is that it's not that great and people have had better luck with a DIY solution.

It may only take both boilers 10-15 minutes to hit their temperature (in 20-amp mode) but I'd say the 40 minutes is about right to make sure the entire brew path is heated. I've been leaving my brew boiler on 24x7 and turning the steam boiler off when it's not needed. It only takes 5-10 minutes to come up to temp for steam or hot water. Not the optimal solution but it's the best one for me to have the machine ready in the morning and for those spur-of-the-moment coffee desires.

I also have found, as have others, that draping a towel over the cup warmer keeps the steam boiler from cycling so often. It also keeps the cups very warm without heating the underside of the cabinets.

I do notice that, if the steam boiler is off, the brew boiler takes a little longer to rebound from warming and blank shots. I'd need to check the diagrams but the brew water may pre-heated by the steam boiler before hitting the brew boiler, resulting in a quicker rebound.

If you'll be making milk drinks, the VII has loads of steam power. Some people have replaced the standard steam arm with a longer version and/or the standard wand tip with one with smaller holes. The latter will slow down the steaming speed. I drink mostly straight espresso or Americanos so haven't gotten either yet. Both parts are available from Chris' Coffee Service and they may in fact install them for you if you buy them and the machine from them (call to confirm).

Lastly, not to detract from Dan's and the HB folks' great work here, check out the The International LaSpaziale S1 Vivaldi Cafe site for more information than you wanted on the Vivaldi line.

by **JohnB.** on Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:10 pm

jpreiser wrote:I do notice that, if the steam boiler is off, the brew boiler takes a little longer to rebound from warming and blank shots. I'd need to check the diagrams but the brew water may pre-heated by the steam boiler before hitting the brew boiler, resulting in a quicker rebound.

There is no pre heating circuit for the group boiler water in the S1. Instead La Spaziale used a small group boiler (.45ltr) heated by an 800 wt element so response is very quick. The longest I've seen my group boiler take to fully recover after a double or 2-3 oz flush is 50 secs & typically it's closer to 30 secs.

by **Endo** on Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:09 pm

I'll chime in for the Mini Vivaldi gang (don't hear much about it here). My Mini steam boiler is only half the size (1.2L vs 2.5L). It has the same steam power but only takes 3.5 minutes to warm up. If your looking for fast warmup, you just can't beat the Mini. I just keep the .45L brew boiler on all the time and switch on the steam boiler on the occasion somebody wants a milk drink. (No timer required).

Just another option. It's not for everybody since it is a pourover and uses a more noisy (but cheaper to replace) vibe pump. Also the steam boiler and heater is a sealed unit which means descaling is a little harder to do (and not as thorough). Another limitation is the hot water delivery. You can only take .2L at a time with a 1 minute rest in betweeen.

But if you're into portability and milk drinks, it's a great choice. If you want the full plumped-in-an-out cafe experience, then go with the Maxi.

by **Lockman** on Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:53 am

Great input. Thanks!

Ok, so I wouldn't really need the timer at all. It will be next to the sink so the drain pain could always been done later. Since the counter is not even finished I would go for the maxi. However, my SO is very into tea and that might be a problem. Can the boiler do a shot or 2 and still provide enough water to make a pot (or a cup)? It looks so tiny in the pic's.

by **JohnB.** on Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:19 am

Lockman wrote:Great input. Thanks!

Ok, so I wouldn't really need the timer at all. It will be next to the sink so the drain pain could always been done later. Since the counter is not even finished I would go for the maxi. However, my SO is very into tea and that might be a problem. Can the boiler do a shot or 2 and still provide enough water to make a pot (or a cup)? It looks so tiny in the pic's.

If you are taking about the S1 Vivaldi the steam boiler holds 2.5ltrs & you can draw off 32oz any time its up to pressure through the hot water tap. The group boiler is the small one & its only used for pulling shots/flushes.

Info here: http://www.chriscoffee.com/produc...espresso/vivaldi_2
and: http://s1cafe.com/s1v2/

by **RapidCoffee** on Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:40 pm

Lockman wrote:However, my SO is very into tea and that might be a problem. Can the boiler do a shot or 2 and still provide enough water to make a pot (or a cup)? It looks so tiny in the pic's.

John is right, the steam boiler is huge on the S1. However, steam boiler water is both overheated (well above boiling) and stale (been sitting for hours or days).

Every tea brewing recipe will advise you to start with fresh, cold water. There are many ways to boil water in the kitchen. In particular, electric kettles are inexpensive and convenient. Get your wife an electric kettle for tea. She deserves it.

by **jpreiser** on Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:22 pm

FYI, for hot water, I use a Chef's Choice 675 electric kettle. This is the same model Alton Brown uses on the Good Eats show. Not elegant but heats water very quickly and the wide opening makes it useful for other tasks.

by **JohnB.** on Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:41 pm

RapidCoffee wrote:John is right, the steam boiler is huge on the S1. However, steam boiler water is both overheated (well above boiling) and stale (been sitting for hours or days).

I can see the days part but "stale" water after a couple hours?? :roll:

Have you actually done a taste test to compare? I use the water that's been in the boiler over night to preheat our press/carafe/cups & then dump it so I know the water I draw for coffee & tea is pretty fresh. I also use it throughout the day to rinse the p/f.

I looked at the electric kettles but all the ones I saw online had plastic liners & were made in China. I'd like one for travel but I'm not heating my water in Chinese plastic.

by **RapidCoffee** on Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:17 pm

Obviously the duration depends on usage patterns. In my case, weeks is more like it. I seldom draw hot water from the steam boiler, but froth milk on a daily basis. This means that dissolved minerals become more concentrated over time. I have done taste tests in the past, and yes, it's easy to for me taste the difference.

In any event, a quick Google search on brewing instructions for tea and coffee finds this as the first hit:

Brewing tea is really quite easy. Here are some instructions for brewing a perfect cup of tea.

First start with cold, great tasting, water. If your tap water does not taste good, then use filtered or bottled water. (I say to use cold water because a typical hot water heater will often add contaminants and reduce the amount of oxygen in the water, which is needed for flavor extraction).

And the second hit:

Here are some tips to brewing good tea:
Start with fresh, cold good-tasting water

The best tea is only as good as the water with which it is prepared. We recommend using filtered or bottled spring water with a natural mineral content that is neither too hard nor too soft. Distilled water is not recommended since water purified of its mineral content produces a flat tasting infusion. The freshness of the water is important as fresh water contains more oxygen, which enhances the taste of the tea. Never use hot tap water or water that has already boiled for a long time as this will result in a flat and dull tasting tea with little aroma.

Go ahead and use steam boiler water if you want. But as we all know, the Internet is always right...

by **JohnB.** on Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:28 pm

The best tea is only as good as the water with which it is prepared. We recommend using filtered or bottled spring water with a natural mineral content that is neither too hard nor too soft. Distilled water is not recommended since water purified of its mineral content produces a flat tasting infusion. The freshness of the water is important as fresh water contains more oxygen, which enhances the taste of the tea. Never use hot tap water or water that has already boiled for a long time as this will result in a flat and dull tasting tea with little aroma.

Since my Espresso water is on the soft/mildly hard line, filtered through carbon & refreshed regularly I'd say I'm good to go. Any thoughts on heating water in Chinese plastic??

by **RapidCoffee** on Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:59 pm

No, but if there are reasoned objections, I'd like to hear them. Perhaps in another thread, since we're straying pretty far off topic on this.

by **Lockman** on Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:18 pm

JohnB. wrote:Any thoughts on heating water in Chinese plastic??

Dont do it! :twisted:

Well at least run a few blanks first to season the melamine. I hear they only use the finest quality melamine so you should be fine...
I actually have a kettle and it works fine. I am checking now to see where it comes from. Ok, mine is a Braun and it is made in Germany. It is also plastic and don't think their melamine production is quite on par.
Anyway, there are also stainless versions as well. Just be sure to wipe the Ethylene glycol off before use :wink:

I have multi filtered water. I put in a whole house charcoal filter after I noticed the chlorine was making my eyes burn. It worked GREAT! Then for drinking and the fridge I have an RO unit with 5 stages of charcoal (and 14 gal tank) as well. I would put the espresso device on this as well.

by **RapidCoffee** on Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:00 am

Lockman wrote:Dont do it!
Well at least run a few blanks first to season the melamine. I hear they only use the finest quality melamine so you should be fine...

Just when you thought it was safe to drink the water...

Melamine resin is used in formica and many kitchen utensils. There have been recent melamine toxicity concerns in infant formula and pet food, but apparently the motivation was to give a false impression of higher protein content. Most H-Bers don't eat pet food or put infant formula in their capps, so it's not clear what you're trying to tell us in this alarming post.

If plastic is truly a concern (and I remain unconvinced of this), there are many other ways to heat water in the kitchen: microwave water in a Pyrex container (but be careful of superheating), boil water in a stainless steel kettle on the stove, or use a cordless glass or SS electric kettle.

by **Lockman** on Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:18 pm

Sorry! I was being evil and sarcastic. :oops:

I thought it was obvious by the icon and my terminology but I repent. :cry:


Contact Us	Legal disclaimer and copyright: This content and all its parts are copyrighted, all rights reserved. Content including all text and images in part or in whole may not be reproduced in any electronic or printed medium without prior permission. Home-Barista, Home-Barista.com and related logos are trademarks of Home-Barista.com, LLC. Other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. By accessing this site, you agree to the terms of service. Overall speed: fast, current page: 0.4s, avg: 0.5s, max: 2.3s