Charles,

I'm not experienced enough to know if all convex tampers are equal (i.e., I've only used one). However, I can't imagine there's a noticable difference in the espresso from one quality tamper to the another - although I'm sure some feel better than others. Espresso Parts has a wide selection of tampers. I'm sure several other HB sponsors carry them as well.

Steve

electricbuckwheat wrote:Are all convex tampers equal? I did not see one on the Chris Coffee site so I would appreciate a suggestion as to brand and source.

No, the curve of convex pistons vary. CafeIKE created this diagram of the diameter and convexity of the HB Roadshow Tampers:

I used the Reg Barber Euro-curve tamper and the EPNW Compressore during most of the A3 evaluation. Since then I've acquired more tampers and rotate through them frequently (TORR is my most recent favorite and they too have different convex pistons available). The Bumper is the most convex of the bunch, although I hear Paul reduced it slightly based on feedback during the SCAA conference.

Another Elektra owner, I still lust after that machine.

As to the tamper issue, I did quite a bit of experimenting with piston shapes while I had the road show kit. I found quite a bit of difference between the convex pistons in my Faema.



La Forza, Coffeelab Design, TORR, Compressore, Bumper

cannonfodder wrote:As to the tamper issue, I did quite a bit of experimenting with piston shapes while I had the road show kit. I found quite a bit of difference between the convex pistons in my Faema.

The pics are very helpful in demonstrating the different convex curves - thanks!

It looks like a convex tamper is in my immediate future!

Charles

Charles:

Sorry to be johnny-come-lately here but I've developed tunnel vision on this board and have tended to just skim the Barista and Gear sections and not pay much attention to the other areas- my fault and likely to miss other good points that way!

A couple of random A3 observations for you based upon 1 year of ownership (hey, almost an A3 veteran!):

1. What a great machine! Would I spend half-again as much for a G3 based upon what I've read here? I really don't think so-

2. Like you, I also have an Andreja Premium. We use it at our vacation home and you (and others) are right, with the Andreja I counted during the flush (one-thousand-one, one-thousand-two) but with the A3, I simply listen to the water dance. My Scace and Fluke combo helped me to zero in on and memorize just the right "sounds" for the temp's I was trying to achieve. This will be obvious, but I've learned to use different sounds to obtain consistent desired temp's if the ambient room temperature has varied a lot (winter vs. summer time). Also, watch it if you're doing a "wiggle-rinse" of the PF after pulling your shot as it is possible to over-cool the grouphead if one gets carried away with this. Fortunately, this behemoth recovers quickly and doesn't hold a grudge like my Cimbali Junior did.

3. Yep, this machine is picky about its "diet" and is sensitive to overdosing. I just about can't make the A3 serve me anything but fantastic espresso unless I overload the basket (currently using a LM ridged double). I've tried a bunch of tampers and my A3 likes a gentle convex curvature the best (mine is an RB) and a flat based tamper the least well.

4. I use the WDT, then tap the grinds lightly a few times to settle my espress "mound", followed by a Chicago chop, then a couple of light finger sweeps across the basket top to get rid of the loose grounds, then tamp- but have gotten away from tapping the basket at all between my tamps. (My memory tells me it was Abe C. who kindly suggested "No tapping please" to me)

5. I've become a grind finer- tamp lighter guy. For me, if I put my fingers around the peripheral rim of my RB tamper (handle mid-palm) and then tamp until my finger touch the basket edges, gently sweep the loose grounds off the top of my basket with my finger, tamp again until my fingers touch the basket and then stop (no tapping, no polishing)- I seem to do great with the A3. I bet I'm applying maybe 10 or 15ish pounds of pressure? My Rancilio bottomless PF locks easily into the grouphead with this routine and my puck has the nice little dispersion screen srew indentation mentioned above after pulling the shot. It also seems to produce a very clean puck that extracts easily and completely intact to my knockbox.

6. If you notice any resistence when locking a "loaded" PF into the A3 grouphead, IMO you've probably overdosed the basket. Taken to the extreme, a really overdosed basket is prone to result in the dreaded "espresso grenade" when the less than fully locked-in PF blows off the pressurized grouphead. (don't ask...)

7. Another way to look at points # 5 and 6 for me is- the A3 seems to perform best if you simply let it do most of the work and spend less time fussing with tapping between tamps, sweeping method, tamp pressure applied this or that. I know it sounds almost too good to be true but as in point #1- what a great machine!

Enjoy your A3!

Thanks for your collection of thoughts. It has been quite an experience moving to this amazing machine.

1. What a great machine! Would I spend half-again as much for a G3 based upon what I've read here? I really don't think so-

I, too, am absolutely delighted with my A3. It is an amazing upgrade from the Andreja Premium. After one month with it, I find that it is unbelievably forgiving. And that is a very good thing since I offer it much to forgive!!!

2. Like you, I also have an Andreja Premium. We use it at our vacation home and you (and others) are right, with the Andreja I counted during the flush (one-thousand-one, one-thousand-two) but with the A3, I simply listen to the water dance. My Scace and Fluke combo helped me to zero in on and memorize just the right "sounds" for the temp's I was trying to achieve. This will be obvious, but I've learned to use different sounds to obtain consistent desired temp's if the ambient room temperature has varied a lot (winter vs. summer time). Also, watch it if you're doing a "wiggle-rinse" of the PF after pulling your shot as it is possible to over-cool the grouphead if one gets carried away with this. Fortunately, this behemoth recovers quickly and doesn't hold a grudge like my Cimbali Junior did.

The Scace Thermofilter was invaluable to me in confirming appropriate temp surfing technique. Its ability to reliably repeat my target temperature makes this the easiest HX machine I have ever used.

3. Yep, this machine is picky about its "diet" and is sensitive to overdosing. I just about can't make the A3 serve me anything but fantastic espresso unless I overload the basket (currently using a LM ridged double). I've tried a bunch of tampers and my A3 likes a gentle convex curvature the best (mine is an RB) and a flat based tamper the least well.

I initially had problems with overdosing while using a flat tamper. As suggested in the review and by other contributors, a convex tamper solved that issue quite handily. I use one with a gentle curve.

4. I use the WDT, then tap the grinds lightly a few times to settle my espresso "mound", followed by a Chicago chop, then a couple of light finger sweeps across the basket top to get rid of the loose grounds, then tamp- but have gotten away from tapping the basket at all between my tamps. (My memory tells me it was Abe C. who kindly suggested "No tapping please" to me)

I, also, use the WDT but just use the straight edge on my stirrer to level the grinds. I, too, have recently eliminated tapping with consistently better results.

7. Another way to look at points # 5 and 6 for me is- the A3 seems to perform best if you simply let it do most of the work and spend less time fussing with tapping between tamps, sweeping method, tamp pressure applied this or that. I know it sounds almost too good to be true but as in point #1- what a great machine!

I couldn't have said it better myself!

Enjoy your A3!

Many times in my life, I have "over purchased" or in other ways experienced buyers remorse. I can truly say that this fantastic machine qualifies for neither. It is a pleasure to use on a daily basis. I keep looking for excuses to have friends over just so I can pull a few more shots!

Thanks again for all of your thoughts.

Charles

Hi ya all!

I am seriously thinking of getting a A3(i am having a new kitchen installed at the turn of the year & could have it "integrated"), the thing i started thinking about is the need for a 20amp fuse?(mentioned in the tech.specs. cuz the power consumption is 2200W)

Here in Finland we normally use(in older houses) only 6,10,16amps.

For example, my dishwasher, washing machine&tumbler runs on 16:s.

The oven & stove is normally behind a triple 16amp.(but it is impossible to hook up the A3 with that cuz those are on a "kitchen island"(=no plumbing) as well as our "national heritage":

The Sauna, which most of us have at their homes, those are too behind triple 16amps. but those monsters heating elements draw as much as 10 000W!
(a page(in Finnish) demonstrating sauna ovens ranging from 6000W to 10500W: http://www.vuolux.fi/kiukaat.htm)

So, a basic calculation tells me that if a triple 16amp. is enough for a 10000W element, then a single 16amp. should be enough for a 2200W element?

j7on wrote:Hi ya all!

I am seriously thinking of getting a A3(i am having a new kitchen installed at the turn of the year & could have it "integrated"), the thing i started thinking about is the need for a 20amp fuse?(mentioned in the tech.specs. cuz the power consumption is 2200W)

Here in Finland we normally use(in older houses) only 6,10,16amps.

20 amp service is recommended for 110V in the US. If you have 220V service in Finland, you can half that, or 10A should be adequate.

Ok, so that is that then, no problem, we have 220V over here.
(b.t.w. just noticed my hotwater boiler(for tea etc.) is 2200W as well, same as A3)

Hi Ev'ryone!

Still pondering...

It is basically (just) a money issue, i have been toying around for a few years with the PavoniPro and now i want something else, i really like the way the A3 looks but...(it's just so damn expensive!)

Is it really so much better than say, (the other 2 i have been weighing over) QuickMill Vetrano Rotary or the Brewtus2?
Is it justified for the extra $1000+?