I think I went about this the wrong way, cutting down into the bottom of the container to try to extract the bottom circle. Probably makes more sense to cut a straight line into the side of the container right at the bottom.

How far should the yogurt container go into the PF? Seems like it needn't touch the bottom, and in fact it would be better (tighter) if it didn't?

Cakesniffer wrote:I think I went about this the wrong way, cutting down into the bottom of the container to try to extract the bottom circle. Probably makes more sense to cut a straight line into the side of the container right at the bottom.

How far should the yogurt container go into the PF? Seems like it needn't touch the bottom, and in fact it would be better (tighter) if it didn't?

Right. From a dosing standpoint, the less the funnel extends into the filter basket, the better. I cut mine so that it wedges fairly tightly in the top of the filter basket. When inserted, the bottom edge of the yogurt funnel extends only about 1/4" into the basket, just about to the ridge. I trimmed back the bottom of the yogurt cup a couple of times until I was satisfied with the fit. It's not rocket science - there's definitely some margin for error due to the conical shape of the container and the deformability of the plastic.

I hope someone will come up with a more aesthetically pleasing funnel someday. But until then, yogurt containers are readily available, inexpensive, and work darn well.
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John

cannonfodder wrote:You could try a hacksaw blade. The fine tooth will cut relatively smooth and the length of the blade will cut more even.

Well folks, I tried a hacksaw this morning, but was not pleased with the results. No dowel handy, so I just drew a guideline and did my best. The yogurt container actually held its form fairly well, but (at least in my hands) the plastic was too soft and slippery for a hacksaw blade. I ended up with a rough, uneven edge that needed to be straightened out with scissors. I went over the edge lightly with a match to melt off any remaining ragged spots (carefully). Again, there's a fair amount of slack in the system, so I wound up with a usable funnel.

YMMV, especially if you could find a really fine-toothed saw blade. But for now I'd recommend just using scissors.
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John

If you are deft with a utility knife, it works great for such cuts. Those who aren't deft with a utility knife should use scissors and make multiple passes.

John,

Again I must thank you so much for sharing this practical approach. It has been the single best advantage I have had learning home espresso. It's amazing that the WDT and a bottomless portafilter have in such a short time given me truly amazing espresso at home.

My shots bead so evenly and espresso is truly beautiful. I owe my progress to the WDT, it remains the single most important tool for the budding home barista to quickly and effectively establish a consistent technique.

I owe my greatest shots to the WDT.

(now if my espresso wasn't so darn good I wouldn't drink so much of it!)

Thanks John!

IMAWriter wrote:I often incorporate the WDT when pulling triples, and when not rushed my doubles as well. A very useful technique! However, I must respectfully disagree with one of the author's statements (and I paraphrase) "by vigorous stirring, the grounds become fluffier [true], thus yielding a greater amount"..[untrue]...at least for me, it works like this, the more I stir...say 6-8 seconds, the air molecules contained within the grind are somewhat dissipated, thus leaving me with LESS volume in the basket...by size (that is...volume), obviously not by weight. My 17g barely reach the top of my double basket...a little tougher to perform the Stockfleths...haha....but the proper amount is in the basket...
If I still had my Rocky doserless, I would never dose/distribute any other way than with the WDT....Bravo!

Hi Rob, and thanks for the kind words. You're right, it would be more accurate to state that the WDT allows you to modify the dose. Stirring could certainly lead to updosing by removing air pockets in the puck. To downdose, try removing the yogurt cup, leveling, then stirring and leveling again without the cup. (But to hit a specific dose, weigh the grounds. )

BTW, I lived in Nashville (all four syllables: Na-yash vi-yal)) for almost a decade (1975-84). Nice town!

For even better distribution, try sifting the coffee in a small, course sifter. Works better than a needle. You can press the coffee through the sifter with a spoon; it's pretty quick and doesn't make that much of a mess if the diameter of your sifter is roughly the same as your PF. With sifting, I'm getting perfectly consistent results with my Silvia/Rocky combo, for the first time in 3 years. I tried the needle method, and it helped, but sifting was even better. With sifting, I hardly worry about tamp pressure at all. It seems to produce a great shot regardless of how hard I tamp.

carlx wrote:For even better distribution, try sifting the coffee in a small, course sifter. Works better than a needle.

Sifting the coffee grinds has been proposed on both H-B and Coffeegeek. Anything that contributes to an even extraction gets my blessing!

TimEggers wrote:John,

Again I must thank you so much for sharing this practical approach. It has been the single best advantage I have had learning home espresso. It's amazing that the WDT and a bottomless portafilter have in such a short time given me truly amazing espresso at home.

My shots bead so evenly and espresso is truly beautiful. I owe my progress to the WDT, it remains the single most important tool for the budding home barista to quickly and effectively establish a consistent technique.

I owe my greatest shots to the WDT.

(now if my espresso wasn't so darn good I wouldn't drink so much of it!)

Thanks John!

Well it's been a year. I tried to wean myself from the WDT and got some pretty good results. Still though nothing matches the consistency of the WDT. I tried everything and practiced practiced practiced. Sure I got great shots some of the time, good shots most of the times but nothing in my experience makes great shots as effortless than the WDT.

I'll admit I loathe the use of the yogurt cup so I just stir the grounds in the portafilter and you know what? Five seconds of that does the trick on my pours just fine. I like the adaptability of this method and the way it makes exceptional espresso easy. Beautiful pours that taste good without any thought or effort (within reason). The WDT has taken a lot of distribution stress away from me that's for sure.

I used to think that a "real" barista doesn't need the WDT, in truth the real barista strives for the finest espresso quality. For me that's WDT. Well done John, I guess I'm a reconvert!

TimEggers wrote:I used to think that a "real" barista doesn't need the WDT, in truth the real barista strives for the finest espresso quality. For me that's WDT. Well done John, I guess I'm a reconvert!

Many thanks for the kind words, and I'm always glad to hear it's helping someone. I would never claim that anyone "needs" to use the WDT, but I believe it does improve my pours by (in Tim "cajun_brew" Brunson's words) eliminating one of the variables: in this case, distribution errors.

RapidCoffee wrote:Many thanks for the kind words, and I'm always glad to hear it's helping someone. I would never claim that anyone "needs" to use the WDT, but I believe it does improve my pours by (in Tim "cajun_brew" Brunson's words) eliminating one of the variables: in this case, distribution errors.

Precisely. What I was meaning to say was that I've had some illusion in my pea brain of a master artist making the coffee with fluid smooth cinematic movements. Then locking in the portafilter and getting a smooth still stream of pure honey joy.

I was wrapped up in a silly notion of what a barista is supposed to look like when making espresso. I'll hand it to the guys and gals that can grind dose tamp and pull excellent shots without even thinking about it each and every time.

I can't. That's why I love the WDT. With it I can, each and every time. Nothing has made me more consistent than the WDT. It's a very practical solution to the most common problems in the most important aspect of home espresso: distribution.

Has anyone found something other than a yoghurt cup, that fits standard 58mm baskets? I was thinking that if the item was metal, or of another material that reduces static, it might help? Though I guess if you stir up the grounds afterwards you're removing clumps anyway...

Canuck wrote:Has anyone found something other than a yoghurt cup, that fits standard 58mm baskets? I was thinking that if the item was metal, or of another material that reduces static, it might help? Though I guess if you stir up the grounds afterwards you're removing clumps anyway...

I would be interested to hear if there were something off the shelf that would fit like a yogurt cup, but I will say that metal is often not all that anti-static. I learned this with that darned expensive Mini-E chute that I bought for my old Super Jolly. the chute did absolutely nothing in terms of reducing static, even when I grounded it pretty thoroughly.

On my current mini, which really only has the safety features removed and the doser sweep mod, the best way that I have found to reduce static is to let the grinds sit in the doser for 10-20 seconds while I brush out the chute and then brush the upper portions of the inside walls of the doser. This proximity of the bristles of my brush, as well as the "resting" time that the grinds get while I am meticulously brushing, seems to neutralize most of the static. Of course, after I do this I really thwack the doser ridiculously hard (I have to hold the mini down while I do this) to break up the clumps. This probably doesn't matter much, since I still use a combo of WDT and the Stockfleth's move to distribute and level, but I do it anyway. With the yogurt cup and the brush method above, I really have no issues with static. I would still like to find an alternate to the yogurt cup though, as it is kind of an ugly tool compared to the other things I use to prepare my coffee...

shadowfax wrote:I would still like to find an alternate to the yogurt cup though, as it is kind of an ugly tool compared to the other things I use to prepare my coffee...

You have a point, a cutoff yogurt cup doesn't have the "Blue Steel" look of my other gear. One option, if you're serious, is to ask a machinist to make one out of brass. Once they stop laughing, they could toss a stock billet on the lathe and cut a nice custom-fit groove for the basket on a flared cylinder. With a little polish and a few coats of clear lacquer, you'd have the sharpest looking WDT cup on the planet.

I keep hoping someone with an entrepreneurial bone in their body will start marketing a WDT Toolkit. (Ain't gonna be me. )

For those using this technique, after stirring the grounds do you then use one of the traditional distribution techniques (n,s,e,w, stockfleth, nutating, etc.) or do you just level off the grounds with a flat edge (and if just a flat edge, do you make an x sweep, 2 sweeps from the centre, etc.)?

Seems to me like a silly, nitpicking question, but I find that the more I do the more can go wrong.

My current technique: after stirring the grounds, I remove the yog container, tap the basket down lightly on the counter, then do a n,s,e,w twice (2nd time pushing grounds off the basket). I then light tamp, ensuring the tamp is even, then a light nutating tamp, then a 30# tamp (happens faster than it might appear). I've found after introducing the nutating tamp things got more consistent...

If I thought it would work as well, I would prefer to just sweep/level the grounds with say the back of a knife (after tapping the basket lightly on the counter?), followed by a light tamp then 30# tamp. I think (many months ago) I tried this but found that after tamping, the puck didn't compress far enough into the basket and it would often touch the shower screen when I locked in the PF. I guess my n,s,e,w means less coffee in the basket...

Thanks.

Canuck wrote:My current technique: after stirring the grounds, I remove the yog container, tap the basket down lightly on the counter, then do a n,s,e,w twice (2nd time pushing grounds off the basket).
...
If I thought it would work as well, I would prefer to just sweep/level the grounds with say the back of a knife (after tapping the basket lightly on the counter?), followed by a light tamp then 30# tamp. I think (many months ago) I tried this but found that after tamping, the puck didn't compress far enough into the basket and it would often touch the shower screen when I locked in the PF. I guess my n,s,e,w means less coffee in the basket...

If you're overdosing, then do not tap ("thump") the basket. This is a very effective updosing technique (see e.g. this thread). A downwards tap after leveling the grounds will not affect the dose, but thumping with a mound of coffee in the basket will certainly cause updosing.

I typically do a sweep to level the basket. To downdose slightly, you can stir the grounds after leveling and sweep again. If the grounds are evenly distributed and you're using a straight edge to level, I don't think it matters much whether you use one leveling sweep or two NSEW sweeps.

Not sure if this has been debated here or on CG...assuming I have no 'convenience' issues with using the WDT as part of my routine, does a dosered grinder offer any advantages over using the WDT (e.g. does the doser do a better job of removing clumps vs. WDT, etc.)?

I've heard the Macap doserless, for example, grinds 'rocks'. But if I dose into the basket then apply WDT, would the grind 'quality' be = to the dosered Macap (if not, why would it differ)? I know most people wouldn't own both grinders, so an objective opinion may be hard to find...but I figured I would ask.