ZPM espresso machine (Kickstarter)

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Nick
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#1: Post by Nick »

Came across this today, thought folks here might be interested (I have absolutely nothing to do with this product or the people involved).

http://zpmespresso.com/
Link to the Kickstarter page: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/zpm ... so-machine
Nick
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caffe1nated
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#2: Post by caffe1nated »

Very cool. I love kickstarter, but I haven't seen this one yet.

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tekomino
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#3: Post by tekomino »

Looks interesting, but they need really to publish more details. PID pressure control? What's that about? Boiler size, what are the pressure and temperature reads throughout the shot as well as more specs on machine itself. $200 for machine makes me really skeptical without much detail.

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aecletec
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#4: Post by aecletec »

The page notes that it uses a thermoblock, not a boiler.

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tekomino
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#5: Post by tekomino replying to aecletec »

Yeah saw that, but was not sure whether it is for steaming only or for both steam and brew... It's for both.

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tekomino
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#6: Post by tekomino »

I decided to back these guys up on Kickstarter (not that i need another machine :wink: ) since they are trying something different and we should have people try to make new and different espresso machines so I decided to help.

I urged them to post pressure and temperature profiles while pulling the shots and they told me that they will do so in coming days. They claim to control the ULKA pump with PID as well, which I have not seen done before. It should be interesting...

If their thermoblock design works well and they can achieve good temperature stability/repeatibility, I can imagine putting one of those pressure controlling gear pumps from Fluidotech into machine like this to have fully pressure profiling espresso machine on the cheap...

Let's see how it develops.

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Bob_McBob
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#7: Post by Bob_McBob »

I've been thinking about it, and I'd strongly consider backing them if they post some more information like you suggested.
Chris

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tekomino
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#8: Post by tekomino replying to Bob_McBob »

I communicate with project owners, they said they will in couple of days. I'll post here when they do.

ohofmann
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#9: Post by ohofmann »

They updated the FAQ a bit:
What type of boiler do you use?

None! We don't use a boiler at all. We've combined the thermoblock, group head, and heating element into one unit in lieu of a boiler. The large mass and thermodynamic design of our thermoblock allows for the consistency that our machine provides, without any of the recoup or lag time that you get with a boiler machine.

We know that thermoblocks are usually associated with cheap low-quality machines, but we've gone out of our way to completely re-engineer the concept to be highly effective, making it closer to a tankless water heater that you find in newer, energy-efficient homes than to thermoblocks used in cheap coffee machines.

Additionally, we have thoroughly tested our design at local coffee shops, and will soon be posting graphs of temperature and pressure profiles to show the consistency and quality of our machine.
and
Can you really use PID control to regulate temperature AND pressure?

Yes! We're using a standard solenoid pump (Italian-made Ulka EX-5), but driving it with a DC pulse rather than mains AC. That way we can precisely control the flow rate by varying the pulse timing. This is better than modulating voltage because you can control of the pump over a much wider range. With voltage control, the pump only has a narrow range that it can work through, while with a variable frequency DC pulse at a fixed voltage the pump can be controlled through a much wider flow rate range.
Not quite sure what to make of this yet. Their production schedule in particular seems highly unrealistic. Set up by end of January, _ship_ by mid-February? I love Kickstarter and have supported tons of projects so far, but I'm not ruling out vaporware for that one just yet.

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tekomino
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#10: Post by tekomino »

That FAQ update is result of my questions.
ohofmann wrote:Not quite sure what to make of this yet. Their production schedule in particular seems highly unrealistic. Set up by end of January, _ship_ by mid-February? I love Kickstarter and have supported tons of projects so far, but I'm not ruling out vaporware for that one just yet.
Agreed, the schedule is really, really aggressive. But if they use mostly off the shelf parts, I'd say its possible although still very aggressive. It is likely the project will stretch...

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