We are adding PID's to many of the semi-autos these days. What kind of extra automation would you like in your semi-auto machine? How much would you consider "too much" (i.e. super-auto).

I don't want any extra automation in my espresso machine. Having the ability to set and maintain or alter a specific brew temp does not begin to qualify as super auto. It is simply enhanced temperature management.

Super auto means the machine does everything and the users simply drinks coffee. A super auto grinds, doses, brews, froths milk, and cleans itself. The only thing the user has to do is keep beans in the hopper and select the desired drink button. I know there is regular maintenance for cleaning out the waste but that's a given.

The only thing I can think of out of that list that I would like my machine to do for me, would be to run its own cleaning cycle. That would qualify for self cleaning but not super auto.

I think being able to manually adjust the pressure and temperature during a shot would not qualiify as a super-auto either.

On the the other hand, if you were able to program intrashot temperature and pressure, this would no doubt be a very complicated machine, but would it qualify as a super-auto? Maybe a Super-Semi?

Gus wrote:Super auto means the machine does everything and the users simply drinks coffee. A super auto grinds, doses, brews, froths milk, and cleans itself. The only thing the user has to do is keep beans in the hopper and select the desired drink button. I know there is regular maintenance for cleaning out the waste but that's a given.

The only thing I can think of out of that list that I would like my machine to do for me, would be to run its own cleaning cycle. That would qualify for self cleaning but not super auto.

Agreed for definition and cleaning. Some easier form of descaling would be nice. Bear in mind that there is a category of Full-Auto machines (usually where one can program shot volume) between semi and super.

My Vivaldi has programmable shot volume and temperature control, but I wouldn't call it a automatic.

So what defines a:

semi-auto
automatic
fully automatic
super automatic

Actually, the defining separator between a semi auto and auto is the programmable volumetric shot. A semi auto uses a lever or button to switch on and off, the auto requires the push of one button and it turns off automatically after a pre programmed volume has passed through the flow meter. A super auto does everything, push a button and it grinds, doses, tamps, pulls a shot of swill that is supposed to be espresso, then dumps the puck and is ready for another button push for another drink.

Yep.

I was going to make a longer post describing Semi-auto, auto, and super auto, but I figured it was covered in machines 101 a 201.

Gus wrote:I was going to make a longer post describing Semi-auto, auto, and super auto, but I figured it was covered in machines 101 a 201.

Guess I should have taken those courses. I bought an auto without even knowing it.

cannonfodder wrote:Actually, the defining separator between a semi auto and auto is the programmable volumetric shot. A semi auto uses a lever or button to switch on and off, the auto requires the push of one button and it turns off automatically after a pre programmed volume has passed through the flow meter.

What is it if it has a switch and volumetric dosing buttons? A semi-semi-automatic? Demi-automatic? Selective-fire machines? ; >

Psyd wrote:What is it if it has a switch and volumetric dosing buttons? A semi-semi-automatic? Demi-automatic? Selective-fire machines? ; >

An automatic that can also be run as a semi-automatic, which is the norm.

miKe mcKoffee wrote:An automatic that can also be run as a semi-automatic, which is the norm.

It's been my experience (small as it is, and most very possibly inaccurate, too) that most semis have an on-off switch (or, off-pre-on) of some sort, and autos have a set of dose switches. Mine has both, a set of programmable volumetric pads and a separate on-off switch.

Or have I just not been paying close enough attention?

Psyd wrote:It's been my experience (small as it is, and most very possibly inaccurate, too) that most semis have an on-off switch (or, off-pre-on) of some sort, and autos have a set of dose switches. Mine has both, a set of programmable volumetric pads and a separate on-off switch.

Or have I just not been paying close enough attention?

Exactly. My Linea(s) are the same. Programmable volumetic touch pads and manual on/off rocker which allows manual usage should the brain fry. With Linea one of the pads is also manual mode toggling group flow on/off. Whether manual operation is with a mechanical or touch-pad type switch doesn't matter, manual on manual off makes it semi-automatic operation. If a particular auto machine didn't have a manual mechanical or pad switch no biggy, program one of the switches for an absurd amount forcing you to either manually stop the shot or end up with a quart or more of foul brown liquid!

miKe mcKoffee wrote:program one of the switches for an absurd amount forcing you to either manually stop the shot

Yeah, a second push of any volumetric button stops it where it sits.

Odd, the last time I had this conversation, it seemed that both were 'unheard of' and rather rare. I haven't done any research or anything, or paid that awful much attention to other volumetric dosing machines, but just other espresso hounds and their machines.
I did notice them on the GB5 when I got to play with a couple of them along the way, but other than the Astorias, I haven't noticed any others.
I bet I see about a hundred of them in the next month, though!

shadowfax wrote:IIRC the Astoria Gloria programming button works as I've described, but it's been awhile since I used one.

The Astorias have a separate hidden switch to program, under the warming tray. They also have a separate, manual, physical, lighted on-off toggle for each group, that turns the group on and off.
It's an entirely separate semi-automatic set-up, with an automatic setup next to it. It's just ever so slightly different from using an auto in semi fashion. If the auto membrane switch pad were removed and disconnected, I could still use this as a semi. It's as if a semi-automatic machine had an automatic setup added to it.

zin1953 wrote:Let's not forget "manual" in terms of pump-driven machines . . . also known in some circles as a "levetta," not to be confused with a "manual lever" machine, as opposed to a "spring-operated lever machine."

So in the world of pump-driven machines, we really have:

1. Manually-operated "levetta" machine (example);
2. Semi-automatic machine (example);
3. Automatic, aka Volumetrically-dosed, machine (example -- 2nd picture from the top); and
4. Super-automatic machine (example).

Or did I leave something out?

True enough. Though some A's are actually just B's with the levetta activating the switch while other A's have attributes B's lack - manual line pressure pre-infusion in mid position. Then there are paddle groups which could be considered levettas top group mounted versus E61 style...