NewEnglandCliff wrote:Teme,

You could plumb your machine with a Flojet pump or equivalent. And how is it your friend has a doserless M4? Did he modify it himself?

Cliff,

Plumbing in is out of the question for now. Why? Just moved from Finland to Denmark and am currently renting. The owner would not be too happy if I started drilling holes to the countertops and installing massive water filtration systems (tap water is unbelievably hard at 450 ppm). Thanks for the tip anyway. I will keep it in mind when and if I purchase an apartment or house in Denmark.

Regarding the Macap, the model is specifically MC4, i.e. a standard production model. I think the reason why it is not that popular is that it is intended as a bulk grinder more than a per shot home espresso grinder. My friend was tempted by the Macap and insisted on the doserless. I will be interested in seeing how things work out with his new grinder and whether some mods will be required or not to make its use convenient...

Oh, one more thing: apologies for drifting off topic.

Br,
Teme

This is timely. I was one of the first owners of Chris's Andrejas and sold my beloved PID'd Silvia as a result. The first thing I sorely missed after I sold her was the ability to zero in on exact brew temps (or so I thought) until I realized two things. 1) I can get to within plus/minus one degree F (I kid you not) of any temperature I desire in the acceptable brew temp range (195 deg F to 205 deg F) by a simple flushing routine that I perfected for my machine and setup with a few days of experiments using my TC-embedded PF, and 2) My palate (which is no less sensitive than many others) can't sense the difference between espresso extracted at 200 or extracted at 201 deg F.

Just today, by chance (I hadn't read this thread yet), I once again checked out my flushing routine with the above-mentioned PF and data-logged, in one-second samples, a few hours of pulling shots to see if my flushing routine was still dead on, after months of not checking it (but instead, enjoying the results of the pulled shots). I found out that I can still pull shots to within the same temperature tolerances. I'll be happy to share charts and the routine with anyone who is interested but it is a function of my boiler and brew pressure settings so it may not work exactly the same way for anyone else.

But the point is this: Although I can understand the benefits of a double boiler machine, I am more than satisfied with my Andreja for a variety of reasons and even though I'm an obsessive upgrader, I feel no need to go "higher" in quality than this Andreja (for the time being).

BobY

PS: In case you have any doubts, I made this chart this afternoon illustrating what I described above. The temps are the Y axis and the time in one-minute intervals is the X axis. The first peak in each group is a 2-ounce flush. The second is a 2-oz shot pull. Note the relatively consistent temps of all the shot pulls even though the time between flushes changes (by design).

Teme,

Thanks for the grinder info. Regarding plumbing your machine, a Flojet pump allows you to plumb your machine with bottled water. No countertop drilling or hard plumbing is required. You could do it in a tent in the woods if you had a power outlet, which is all that would be required for the pump and, of course, the espresso machine. This is the setup that espresso carts use in the street or at trade shows. It's fairly cheap and it allows you to use top quality water. A drain isn't usually required either, unless you have a very small drip tray. Drains can get smelly and require periodic cleaning anyway. It's often less work not to have one. I've never even come close to filling up my drip tray with waste water.

And to get back on topic, I'm entirely satisfied with my La Spaziale S1.

BobY wrote:I'll be happy to share charts and the routine with anyone who is interested but it is a function of my boiler and brew pressure settings so it may not work exactly the same way for anyone else.

Bob,

I'd be very interested in learning more of your routine (and the charts). Could you send me an email? I currently run my Andreja at 1.1 bar max (0.95 at the low end).

Br,
Teme

Good topic. I wish that I had a $ for every customer that has asked me which consumer machine is best. My experience with consumer machines is limited, so it is hard for me to judge them. I would have to say that my ultimate home machine would be a modified Faema E61. Autofill and a good pressurestat with minimal deadband would be a must. I have spent a little time working with double boiler machines, and I believe that the accuracy and consistency is a real plus in a high volume commercial environment. But, I still believe that the combination of an E61 with a barista who understands the machine will yield the best results.
If we could just get Kees to make a one group Mirage.....

I assume you've seen pictures of the Speedster, right?
I dream of someday seeing one of the six for sale somewhere....

The speedster spent a long time as the wallpaper for my Powerbook.

Anybody know the story behind the 6 produced?

The nice thing about the "hothead" e61 machines for home use is that you can get any temperature you want for the first shot just by flushing shorter or longer. I'm not as consistent as Bob, but can keep it within 2C windows, no sweat. If I want to get very precise, I can use the TC to flush to the nearest 0.5C. This makes them slightly more convenient for home use than a double boiler.

But changing the temperature you get to when pulling shot after shot is a hassle on any HX, so that's where the double boilers shine.

framey wrote:The speedster spent a long time as the wallpaper for my Powerbook.

Anybody know the story behind the 6 produced?

I believe that Kent Bakke owns one and John Blackwell owns another but I could be wrong.

I left out the speedster because I consider it to be 99.999% pure unobtanium.
A little E61 tip. You can achieve a very stable and consistent temp at the group after a reasonable amount of flush, followed by steady use. The initial temps after the machine has been idle are always a bit high. The following few shots can be a bit unstable, with drops in temp by as much as 4-5F throughout the extraction. After this comes the famous E61 temp stability ("the zone"), maintaining temps within 1F throughout the extraction, shot after shot. When we dial in the temps on our Faema we base it on the readings that we get in the "zone". Basically we have found that the initial flush is key to bringing extraction temps down, but a bit of continued run time will then bring about proper temp stability. I believe that reaching this point of stability on a small consumer E61 should be pretty easy to do considering the lesser amount of internal plumbing.

For whatever it's worth...
K