Vintage E61 1gr wiring questions...

Equipment doesn't work? Troubleshooting? If you're handy, members can help.
ertech
Posts: 56
Joined: 8 years ago

#1: Post by ertech »

Hi guys I purchased an all original 1Group 1967 E61 .the unit is in transit from Italy to the USD so no way for me to see a picture.
got a few questions on wiring so I can get ready before the machine arrives.
1- how many wires to the power cord ?
2- what colors are these wires and what do they represent ?
3- 240v 20A breaker is ok?
4- anyone use one of these wifi timers to start the machine 1 h before with relay triggered by 120v to start the machine?
240v------relay120v triger----Plug outlet---wifi timer------120v receptacle
4- when did they stop production of the original E61 ?
Thanks guys

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Mouldy
Posts: 148
Joined: 11 years ago

#2: Post by Mouldy »

Hi ertech,

I can help a bit by explaining the wiring that was done on my vintage E61; which was purchased from Italy.

Please note your machine may be different, and I advise you to get an electrician to do any electrical work required to ensure everything is safe, and also compliant with local regulations and standards.

A general description of my machine is as follows. Note that as per the photo, you can't see cable colours as I have had high temperature sheathing installed to protect cables from heat;

In regards to main cable supply, I have two cables that run to the machine via the slinky-like cable conduit into the machine. One cable is four core (brown + black + blue + earth), and the other cable is a two core cable that connects to the microswitch (which is activated by the group lever on either of the two groups).

On the four core cable, mine has the earth connected to the frame, and the neutral connection (blue in my case) connected directly one side of the heating element terminals; which has a link connecting the upper and lower terminals on the right hand side (photo below). The brown and black cores of the four core cable effectively supply an active to each of the upper and lower heating element terminals on the left hand side (photo below); however they do so by connecting via the two mercury bulbs of the pressure switch and ceramic terminal blocks. In this case, the neutral is connected permanently to the heating elements; however the actives are only applied to the heating elements when the mercury pressure switch is closed; which is whenever the pressure in the boiler is below the setpoint (configurable by adjusting nut on the mercury switch).

The other two core cable that connects to the microswitch, is the active cable to the externally mounted motor/pump. There is a separate neutral connection direct to the motor/pump; however the active is run via the microswitch such that whenever either of the two group levers is lifted, the active is closed across the microswitch and therefore to the motor/pump. This then causes the external motor/pump to operate and supply water to the group head(s).

I also have some additional connections (you can see in the photo below) which attach to additional ceramic terminal blocks, and supply to a small transformer I mounted inside, that supplies the custom made neon backlight.



In regards to your question of 20A breaker, you should be able to see stamped on the heating element the power rating and the voltage. If yours is a singe group and 220/240V, then I'm guessing it will be around 1800 - 2000W, in which case 20A is likely sufficient; however I again advise to check with your electrician.

ertech (original poster)
Posts: 56
Joined: 8 years ago

#3: Post by ertech (original poster) »

Thanks for the quick reply
So if I understand correctly.
The pump/motor does not get its power from the machine from those 2 wires( microswitch). The 2 wires only closes the circuit.
No worries I will not wire it myself just preparing the installation
240v circuit in canada only has a white / black and bare ground . What do we do with the 4th wire
Thanks

Nunas
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#4: Post by Nunas »

Frankly, it's best to wait until you have it then tell us what you've got. Better still, post a photo.

Some things to look for. First, this will be a 220-240 volt machine throughout. So, providing you have 240 available from your panel (e.g., stove or elect. clothes dryer) there should be no rewiring needed. The wire insulation colours will be different from ours. Usually, they are brown and blue.

If you have a black/white wire it should not be 240. The white is a neutral, or should be. You should be looking for black/red. If the electrician ran 240 over a black/white, he should have painted or used colour tape to show it is 240.

Our single phase electric system uses two hot legs with a neutral. With our 240-volt, both wires will give you a shock to ground. When we switch 240 lines that is why we use double pole switches.

If you do the work yourself, I cannot stress strongly enough that you should have an electrician check it out before firing it up.

ertech (original poster)
Posts: 56
Joined: 8 years ago

#5: Post by ertech (original poster) »

Hi guys me again
Need to wire my 220v E61 with 4 wires ( black, brown , blue , green) to USA 240v
I have asked many electricians and espresso pro repairman and got 3 different answers

Here is the final question. Lol
The consensus is
black and brown together on one phase( L2 )
Blue one phase ( l2 )
Green with yellow stripe on ground
All this on a double 20A breaker
Thanks for your input

gor
Posts: 268
Joined: 12 years ago

#6: Post by gor »

One of those wires needs to power the pump.

ertech (original poster)
Posts: 56
Joined: 8 years ago

#7: Post by ertech (original poster) »

yes there are 2 extra wires that go to the pump.
thanks

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Mouldy
Posts: 148
Joined: 11 years ago

#8: Post by Mouldy »

ertech wrote:Hi guys me again
Need to wire my 220v E61 with 4 wires ( black, brown , blue , green) to USA 240v
I have asked many electricians and espresso pro repairman and got 3 different answers

Here is the final question. Lol
The consensus is
black and brown together on one phase( L2 )
Blue one phase ( l2 )
Green with yellow stripe on ground
All this on a double 20A breaker
Thanks for your input
<image>
Do you know what is already wired on the machine? It may be that the connections between the pressure switch and heating element is already done, and you may only have to wire in the incoming supply cable.

Please check with your electrician if any of this is appropriate to your machine; however;
In the mark ups you made on the photo of my machine, the black and brown cores that you labelled 'to pressure switch' are not from the incoming cable. The ones you labelled are the connections (actives) from the pressure switch to the heating element. The incoming 240V actives (brown and black) are the two cores immediately below the ones you labelled and they terminate into the ceramic terminal block. From the terminal block one active then connects to the incoming end of one Mercury bulb, and the other active then connects to the incoming end of the other bulb. The actives continue from the other side of each Mercury bulb into the ceramic terminal block from where they continue to the heating element. The neutral (blue) that you labelled is correct as applied to my machine, as is the earth connection.

In this way, voltage will only reach the heating element while the pressure switch is closed (I.e while the boiler pressure is below the set point).

The cables at either side of the very bottom of the terminal block in the photo of my machine won't exist on your machine. These are the active connection for the mini power supply that powers my custom neon backlight.

zretineo1979
Posts: 34
Joined: 13 years ago

#9: Post by zretineo1979 »

Zac here! I am curious to know more as well. I could use a couple of more detailed pics, or, a computer drawing. I have a 1964 E-61 single head unit. Took it all apart, forgot to take detailed of electrical. Glad this thread popped up! I have had this machine ready to use for MONTHS, my only issue is the electrical. I had posted back in June, But, I received pdfs for the new e-61. Not the original... THERE IS HOPE!!! :D

zretineo1979
Posts: 34
Joined: 13 years ago

#10: Post by zretineo1979 »

Here she is in all her glory.
side pose...

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