I just got a brand new Vibiemme Domobar Super - dual boiler + PID machine. I had a Expobar Brewtus III and am eager to try out the Vibiemme.

The Brewtus III was connected to a timeclock which would turn on the espresso machine at 6 o'clock in the morning to warm up. By the time I would wake up, my baby would be sitting ready for use!

Now last Friday the Vibiemme Domobar Super arrived and has this 3-way powerswitch. The first stage is to activate the pump and then 90 seconds later to turn on the heater elements.

I cannot operate the 3-way powerswitch automatically and would like to turn on the Vibiemme at 5.45 in the morning so it warms up automatically.

Any tips?

Thanks. SJ

I don't understand. If you want to use a timer, plug the Vibiemme into it and set the switch to this position:


Heater on, pump ready

This position is used for pump-only operation. It's used, for example, to fill the boiler for the first time, or to flush the boiler without needlessly reheating the water:


Pump only, no heater

For the sake of completeness, this is the off position:


Off

Your Expobar Brewtus behaved similarly, if you ignore the Vibiemme's second position (labeled as "I").

I am curious why you went from the Brewtus to the Domobar Super. Seems like a lateral move.

It is a lateral move as both are dual boiler PID espresso machines. I considered and even tested both machines (also with the Scace thermo portafilter) earlier and eventually bought the Brewtus for the stupid reason that the temp reading of the Vibiemme seemed off to me, not realising that the temp on the display was the temperature in the boiler and not the temperature at the brewhead as measured with the SCACE. The Brewtus III displays the offset temp.

I might be completely wrong, but the Expobar makes me perfect espresso but is lacking cappuccino-power. It is a Spanish machine and somehow they ship the Brewtus III with the (brew) pressure set to 11 bar instead of the approx. 9 bar I would prefer. It is quite easy lowering the pressure using the OPV valve (thanks to the great help on this forum), but you cannot separately adjust the boiler pressure in the other boiler that provides the steam. Somehow this pressure cannot be adjusted separately and I think the pressure is not good enough to steam milk.

With the Vibiemme the pressure of the coffee boiler can be made separately from the steam/hot-water boiler. Maybe there is also some more steam power, but to be honest: I haven't checked the difference in capacity.

Then, I think the Vibiemme looks much better than the Brewtus III.

I have no direct knowledge, but I can't imagine that the steam boiler pressure is not adjustable.

That is what I thought as well. It should be possible to change the pressure of the steam boiler on such a machine as the Brewtus III ! However, this seems not to be possible as confirmed by the manufacturer. Would anyone else know how to adjust it? Combine this with the fact that the Brewtus III is shipped here in Europe with a 2-hole steam wand tip and that I could not easily find a 1-hole tip made me switch to the Vibiemme.

Dan, thanks for the pictures of the powerswitch. I just wasn't sure if I needed to power on the Vibiemme always using a 2-stage approach. Did you or anyone on HB write a review of the DoubleDomo / PID version?

SJ

sjjan wrote:Did you or anyone on HB write a review of the DoubleDomo / PID version?

No, we discussed it, but decided to put it off while they did some tweaks after the first production run (Vibiemme DoubleDomo review - when ?). Then the holidays came, wrapped up a review of the Ponte Vecchio Lusso, La Spaziale Vivaldi II, and the soon-to-be-published Expobar Brewtus III. Oh, then there's the long overdue final writeup of the Titan Grinder Project... a sizable backlog. The DoubleDomo is still in the queue, assuming that 1st-line is still interested.

sjjan wrote:That is what I thought as well. It should be possible to change the pressure of the steam boiler on such a machine as the Brewtus III !

That is very strange. Brewtus II has a normal pressurestat that can be adjusted. Would it be possible that Brewtus III has a non-adjustable pressurestat? Or do they use PID for controlling steam boiler? If the latter, then it is probably adjustable via the PID as it is almost the same PID as in Duetto.

sjjan wrote:However, this seems not to be possible as confirmed by the manufacturer.

My understanding is that the business focus of Expobar is in completely different markets and therefore they are not always so interested in direct customer support. "Not possible" might meant "it is complicated, and we are too busy to explain".

It wasn't me who asked the manufacturer, but one of their largest resellers/online shops (http://www.koffiewarenhuis.nl). There is no way to adjust it. At least, I could not find how anywhere. What does work is putting a wooden toothpick in one of the holes of the steamwand tip. Then, the Brewtus III gives this perfect microfoam. Before plugging one of the holes, there was no way we could produce microfoam with the 2-hole tip delivered with the Brewtus III.

Now I have this box here with a Vibiemme DoubleDomo PID machine. The 2 boilers in the DoubleDomo are smaller in size (1.4 liter) than in the Brewtus III (each 1.7 liter). Both boilers can be adjusted. The question now is if the extra money paid for the Vibiemme will pay off. I had thought about buying the HX version. However, I didn't.

It all isn't so easy to get this perfect espresso and cappuccino with any espresso machine without doing some adjustments. I wander how people get any decent drink made when they just unpack the espresso machine and start making drinks. We weren't able to get the perfect microfoam without the wooden toothpick closing one of the holes in the steamwand tip, but I would not see everyone else buying espresso machines do the same. Why don't the manufacturers not put in a little bit more care in delivering a better configured and adjusted device?

Now I am to start using the Vibiemme (I unpacked it, but did not use it yet) or send it back and continue using the Brewtus III. Maybe I should first read the review that was just published of the Brewtus III and then decide.

SJ

If Steam is the issue the Regular Super Domobar with single boiler is the way to go. I made the choice for the single boiler because I drink only latte's and the power shutting off feature was of no interest.

There is more than enough steam, almost too much sometimes as I have to turn it down in my machine

Your switch can stay in the ON position as the boiler is already full and there is no risk. I leave mine on all the time.

I have to wonder if its a savings and good for the machine whether or not to leave on all the time. I mean the heating up time compared to the short spurts of keeping up a temperature while left on are probably minimal difference. I also think that the heating and cooling of parts ie: gaskets etc probably have an effect.

I will always opt to leave on all the time...

Sjoerd, you can adjust the boiler pressure of the BIII very easily.
It is the same on all their HX machines, just by turning the pressostat to a higher pressure your get more steampower.

There has been some "advancements" in the PID control used with these machines. The Gicar controller fitted to the new Alex Duetto II has the ability to set the pressure (via temperature?) in the steam boiler via the Gicar display, i.e., goodbye pressurestat. See here for some details: http://www.chriscoffee.com/products/hom ... izzoduetto

I do recall someone saying that the PID controller in the first generation Duetto and the B-III were the same or at least very similar. So, it may very well be that (now) the B-III pressurestat has been replaced by an updated Gicar controller and that the ability to change the setting within the controller for the steam boiler has been "locked out" to the end user.

We have for my home use the pid double boiler
we have it on a timer
switch is always on position I
that gives power to the brew boiler, all the function including the PID
with an exception of the steam boiler,

ONCE you are already up and the timer warmed up already the brewing
takes only 8 minutes for the steam boiler
so My suggestion is that

If Sjoerd is having trouble with the 2 hole tip, but does well with the 1 hole tip, would that not indicate too much steam power for his current skill level?

Could be the skill level. However, I am a fully qualified SCAE Barista and have no problem getting good microfoam on other machines, even those that have a lot of power. To me the problem seems to be that the 2 hole tip provides too much of an opening that the pressure in the boiler falls and does not stay the same. The first cappuccino would still be OK, but the second one right after would have problems.

Knowing that I can create perfect microfoam on other machines I would think to search for the problem somewhere else.

As to my knowledge, the pressurestat cannot be adjusted and by the OPV to provide not 11 bar but 9 bar of pressure for making the espresso, it seems that the steamboiler pressure is lowered automatically (in the PID controller firmware software or some other way?). The steamboiler pressure sinks down to 0.6-0.8 bar.

With a 1-hole tip (blocking the other), the pressure in the boiler cannot be released as quick, so the BIII can keep up.

SJ

As to my knowledge, the pressurestat cannot be adjusted and by the OPV to provide not 11 bar but 9 bar of pressure for making the espresso, it seems that the steamboiler pressure is lowered automatically (in the PID controller firmware software or some other way?). The steamboiler pressure sinks down to 0.6-0.8 bar.

I didn't quite follow, OPV should not have anything to do with steam pressure. Did you have a look inside the machine? Was there a pressurestat? Maybe they switched to PID'ed steam boiler control like in Duetto, but didn't document how the PID can be programmed to change steam boiler temperature.

The latest BIII does not have the same PID as the Duetto V2.
I just received both last week and there totally different due to the fact that the Duetto now has no Pressurestat and the BIII has like it always had.

I am getting some 4 hole tips in a week or so for the BIII and others maybe that can help Sjoerd too.

Of course I opened up the machine. There is no pressurestat inside that can be adjusted. The only adjustment that can be made is the OPV valve, thus lowering the pressure at the brewhead. The pressure in the steam boiler is set automatically by the Brewtus III.

SJ

Sorry but then you haven't looked properly.
They now put tape around the pressurestat to protect it from water from the vacuum valve.

If you look into the machine from the backside it is between the panel of the water container and the steam boiler.
You cannot have no pressurestat, seriously.