I like to add my take in defense of VBM
MANY times they help me helping customers with machine OUT from warranty
sending them parts directly from Italy free of charge
now if there are territories in France, or Germany or Italy or wherever
yes I will agree with VBM you will have to deal with the dealer
unless you are traveling away from the country etc etc

1st-line wrote:Stainless steel without any iron ore can not rust. I have worked in a commercial kitchen environment for over 10 years and I visit restaurants all the time. There are tables and many appliances that get poured with water and NEVER rust. The reason is that they have no iron.

No offense Jim, but you may want to learn more about stainless steels. For starters, ALL stainless steel alloys do contain iron. If an alloy has no iron (Fe), then it is no longer a steel (stainless or otherwise).

Also, ALL grades of stainless will indeed rust. Stainless steel generally does resist rust very well but because it has iron it can be oxidized (rusted). Here's more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel

Many of the more expensive grades of stainless will not rust in general kitchen service, but in more severe conditions it's a different story. Also, the poster who mentioned the welds is spot-on (so to speak) because the weld itself and surrounding area will be metallurgically altered.

EDIT - It is possible to weld stainless so that the weld and surrounding area has similar (or even superior) corrosion resistance, but this requires careful process and selection of the weld filler.

Randy G. wrote:There are a lot of alloys that are called stainless steel, or should I say that stainless steel is a lot of things. Some are magnetic, others not. "Real" stainless steel has at least 11% chromium by weight. The rust shown in the drip tray is most likely the material that was used to weld the seams if the tray was "real" stainless steel. With the questionable quality of some of the materials coming out of China in recent years, depending on the source of the metals used in any machine, finding a metal labeled as stainless steel that is rusting would not be a shock.

One just needs to take a magnet to it. In most cases, a magnet will not stick to a good stainless that will not rust. However, a stainless that has iron ore will typically have a greater tensile strength. I am not a metallurgist nor pretend to be one, so I am open to one who is an expert in this field.

Again - All stainless steels have IRON (Fe) as a primary component, this is by definition.
The addition of Chromium (Cr) in sufficient amount makes it "Stainless"

It is a common misconception that magnets will not stick to "higher quality" stainless.
Magnets will stick to some grades of stainless steel, but not to others.

EDIT - I'm not a metallurgist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn one time

One more thing, "iron ore" is basically a rocky formation.
Ore is not used in alloys directly, it is smelted first to convert it to metallic iron.

CLICK HERE for more on iron ore

JonR10 wrote:It is a common misconception that magnets will not stick to "higher quality" stainless.
Magnets will stick to some grades of stainless steel, but not to others.

My father worked in the steel industry for 37 years, so I figured he might know a thing or two about stainless steel. He confirmed that many stainless steels are indeed non-magnetic, but not all. Treatment of the steel can also render stainless steel magnetic, e.g., rolling and ductile processing. He pointed out that stainless steel rusts, but the formation is self-limiting (wikipedia.org says it nicely: "Stainless steels have sufficient amounts of chromium present so that a passive film of chromium oxide forms which prevents further surface corrosion and blocks corrosion from spreading into the metal's internal structure").

[All those years and I never asking him about his work; interesting stuff! ]

1st-line wrote:As for the foot, it is made of stainless with no iron - it is impossible to rust. The screw for it though is made of iron and can rust. The stainless foot is chrome plated. Hence, if you scratch/bang the chrome, it will peel or flake, but the stainless underneath will not rust and it will not cause it to flake.

For sake of completeness, you can read misterdoggy's report in Problems with LaVibiemme build quality. In the end, he reported that Vibiemme replaced the part at no charge.

If anyone has further interest, here is an excellent explanation of stainless steel's passive layer, and a discussion of the alloys which mention the iron content.

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/metalsand...71201a.htm

And here is a discussion of the magnetic properties of some stainless steel alloys:

http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae546.cfm

Geoffrey

The chromium layer is really tough and it also makes buffing stainless a royal pain.... (but shiny for a long long time once you are done).

With my induction cook top that only works on magnetic material, all our stainless steel pots worked except a stainless steel wok we picked up that wasn't sufficiently magnetic for the cook top to work with. Exchanged it and we were good to go.

Mark

In response to the question whether or not the dealer in question did not want to replace anything, the answer is that both he and La Vibiemme accepted to change the foot under warranty. He just never sent it to me. He has been very difficult.

Another point which I did not mention but will now is that within a few weeks of using the Domobar, the mesh tray with is affixed with several weld/solder points came apart at one of the corners. Vibiemme replaced it and the dealer sent it to me right away.

The Foot was another story and it still has not arrived from the dealer.

The real question is "WHY" did the tray have to be replaced, and "WHY" did the chrome plating on the foot come off in the first place.

Does this mean you have to invest at least $6000 to get a machine that doesn't fall apart /

Here are foto's and I'll let the Scientist's give their explanations. The location of the machine was in a kitchen.

One foot is how it looked before and the other is after the chrome just peeled away.

I don't have scientific explanation

but I can tell you that in 5 years of selling vbm I never seen a foot like that nor heard of any of my more then one hundred customer sold unit to be like that


looks like some acid was spilled on it