Just wondering if anyone's had experience with a copper (or brass) boiler'd machine (particularly the Silvano) and uses hard water? Is that a HUGE no no?

I was interested in purchasing a QuickMill Silvano, since it seems like a really nice machine, but I read the manual online for the Silvano, and they recommend NOT using any water with more than I think 3 grains of hardness, and they also don't recommend descaling!

I found out we have relatively hard water here in Toronto, "Toronto's water hardness is usually between 106 to 127 parts per million (the average for 2009 was 120 milligram/litre or 8.4 grains/imperial gallon). "
I don't really want to invest in a water softener unless there's some small filter like practical cost effective method. I've seen some electronic gizmos but I don't think they would really work well.

What's the worst that could happen? Need to replace the boiler in a few years?

Usually it means you'll get excessive scale buildup in the boiler and brew path. You can mitigate this by buying bottled water with a low mineral content. I think Crystal Geyser is recommended as being a good mix of minerals for an espresso machine. You can also do a home mix of distilled water and filtered tap water to get the right hardness. Don't use 100% distilled water, as it will taste flat and cause problems with the machine.

You can usually descale most machines, although the sellers don't recommend it, by using Dezcal or similar descaling solution. Most people here will descale their machines once a year or so as a preventative measure.

Thanks,
I just found a post with this link as well, which has some similar tips http://big-rick.com/coffee/waterfaq.html

Apparently using a Britta filter does help a little to reduce some hardness, so I might do that, and do a light descale maybe every 10 months. I was just worried descaling could cause more issues like foaming or eating away at copper (since Quick mill Silvano manual mentions that).
Also apparently flushing with Reverse Osmosis or Software might help reduce buildup too, I could definitely do that.

I'm not a fan of bottled water because it's overpriced and wasteful for the environment, but I could always stop by my dad's and pick up a large jug of his softened water as well, since he's got a water softener there

You can get RO water at the supermarket really cheap (11 liters for 1.8$ at Loblaws here in montreal). I re-use the same bottle so no wasted plastic.

Then all you need to do is mix it up with some of your tap water until the hardness is enough to help with taste but not cause excessive scale. Use aquarium drip tests to measure your final hardness. Once you've got your RO water to tap water proportions set, it's easy to mix up. i.e. mine is 3 parts RO water to 1 part tap water.

Thanks, I've been doing this, and for now also using expensive 'best water filters' which is similar to Britta type filters, except it supposedly adds magnesium for coffee taste (and yet, removes water hardness for the boiler) with a fresh filter it does work to bring hardness down an acceptable level, after some usage, I have to start adding some R/O water in like you suggested.
Thanks,

spiffdude wrote:You can get RO water at the supermarket really cheap (11 liters for 1.8$ at Loblaws here in montreal). I re-use the same bottle so no wasted plastic.

Then all you need to do is mix it up with some of your tap water until the hardness is enough to help with taste but not cause excessive scale. Use aquarium drip tests to measure your final hardness. Once you've got your RO water to tap water proportions set, it's easy to mix up. i.e. mine is 3 parts RO water to 1 part tap water.

Aside from using distilled water that's exactly what I'm doing.