Hello HB forum

I've had a Nespresso for the past 2 years of my undergrad life, which was very convenient in my dorm room (no running water in sight!). However now that I am moving off campus into my own house I decided to step up my coffee game and buy a "real" machine. I've purchased a Gaggia Classic.

My roommate owns a fairly expensive conical burr grinder, I'm not sure of what sort. It worked well for his aeropress last year, but I'm assuming it won't be great for espresso. However we haven't moved in to our house yet so I'm holding off on dropping a lot of money on my own grinder until we at least give his a try.

In the meantime, I bought a bag of Starbucks (*$?) Espresso blend, having them grind it "for espresso". I know, I know, I just wanted something to practice with to get used to the machine.

Currently I am getting pull times of 9-10 seconds with a thin layer of pseudo-crema that dissipates within 60 seconds. I am using the lame plastic tamper that came with the machine, I ordered a real one but it has yet to arrive. I assume the lack of crema can be attributed to the pre-ground, stale coffee, but what about the pull time? Grind too coarse? I think I'm using plenty, if not too much pressure, when I tamp.

Another concern is that I am getting water/espresso temps of around 170 F. This is after almost 40 minutes of warm-up (with the PF in place). Am I totally screwed, or is there some sort of technique I'm missing (It's amazing how complex the operation of a 3-button machine can be)?

Finally, how far should I be turning the PF to tighten it? I can't really get it to point straight out from the machine, it seems to be fully tightened a few degrees under perpendicular. If the PF is tight and I'm getting a good seal, do I need to worry?

Thanks in advance, this place seems pretty awesome!

Hello,

I'm no expert but I can give you some answers based on what I've read here and my limited experience.

Thin crema and fast pull, most likely coffee isn't fresh enough, might be too coarse too (though I usually get fine crema with fast pulls and fresh coffee)

I think everyone will suggest you try fresh beans from a reputable roaster (there are lists on the site), and grind at home.

If you send in the name / model someone here can probably tell you about your roommate's grinder.

How do you measure temp? Temp drops pretty quickly as the water falls - there's a method using a Styrofoam cup that's supposed to be OK, others may have better ideas. If the water is really too cool, others will have suggestions for getting it higher.

Snug portafilter is fine, doesn't have to be at any particular angle.

Good luck, have fun.

Phil

You're never going to get anything close to acceptable results with preground, stale, overroasted coffee from Starbucks. I'm not surprised you're getting thin crema and fast brew times with that coffee. This is exactly what I would expect from preground (i.e. stale) coffee. Basically, you're wasting your time with Starbucks coffee, or any preground beans for that matter. Trying to get decent results from preground coffee will only result in frustration.

You need to track down some high quality, fresh beans as soon as possible and use your friend's grinder to grind them just before use. You didn't say what kind of grinder your friend has, but it's worth grinding your own beans and seeing how that goes. If it's a low end grinder, you may not have much luck getting proper pour times, but at least the beans will be freshly ground instead of stale. If you're really lucky, you might actually be able to get 25 or 30 second pours.

Gaggia machines have small boilers, so their brew temperature will drop pretty fast as you pull a shot. However, you can usually get a decent shot if you warm the machine up for 15 minutes or so with the PF locked into the group. In fact, I usually have to flush some water before pulling a shot on my office Gaggia Coffee or the brew temp is too hot. But brew temps on these machines just aren't that stable because of the small boiler, so don't expect to get a flat brew profile. Try to use a forgiving blend of beans that doesn't require flat brew temps, like Klatch Belle Espresso or Red Bird espresso.

To clarify: I have no intention of continuing to use pre-ground Starbucks coffee In two weeks I'll be back at university where there are two local roasters. I just wanted to make sure that these issues were caused by the coffee, not my machine.

I've been measuring the temp using my digital thermometer, which is fairly nice (When I'm not a student, I'm a line cook) immediately after pulling the shot into a pre-warmed demitasse or shot glass. I'll try the styrofoam cup method and see if it gives me different results. I understand that the temps may not be constant (although things have been pretty consistent between 168 and 172), but is 170 cause for alarm, or acceptably high?

170 is too low, my guess is it has to do with the way you're measuring. Mostly I've read about small Gaggias being too hot, I think mine probably was.

I suggest not worrying about it until you get a good pour (fresh beans / grinder) and seeing how it tastes.

Then, there's a lot of advice about how to evaluate problems (for instance - I've read too bitter = too hot / too sour = too cool), and about how to get the best out of the small Gaggia machines, I'd try some of those things before even thinking about the possibility that there's a problem.

Only because it's easy to worry too much about technical problems and sometimes you don't have to - better, I think, to have fun playing with the coffee.

If you get frustrated by bad results despite good practices, then you can start taking the machine apart.

Have fun!

I suspect your portafilter is tightened about right - with a good gasket I think one rarely goes to straight out. It usually stops at about 7 o'clock vs. 6. Also, I suspect the temp in the cup is about right. You can learn about temp surfing here and on other discussion sites - although with my Gaggia, I never worried about that too much - with fresh roasted coffee, ground fresh, I always get good crema and pretty good tasting shots. I have used a Gaggia MDF grinder with pretty good success. It's not a great grinder but certainly gives passable results.

My temperatures are getting much better, this time I paid more attention to working quickly and running hot water into the cup via the PF. Got up to 180.1 F. Thank you for all the advice everyone. The coffee will suck for the next 10 days but at least I know my machine isn't a lemon

Here's some advice from someone that learned on a Gaggia. I think the most important thing to getting good results and improving is focusing on the few important things and ignoring everything else for now.

1. Good coffee is most important, there are some good blends available online that have a reputation for being forgiving. I'd put Ambrosia from Caffe Fresco and Red Bird Espresso at the top of the list. Getting coffee that's fresh roasted is the bare minimum, but just because its fresh or local doesn't necesarily mean its good. And there are lots of good coffees out there that are very tricky, so they're frustrating to learn with, avoid those for now.

2. The grinder. There are lots of cheaper (<$100) "conical" burr grinders out there that are really just conical crushers and won't work well for espresso. But there are also some good cheaper grinders that will work great. Hand grinders would be the cheapest, but there are good options around $200-300 and a Vario might be a good investment as well.

3. If you can make or buy a bottomless portafilter that can help identify problems with the pulls visually, but certainly isn't required.

4. A cheap plastic tamper would do the job with a little work, and any other cheaper tamper is fine. Worry about getting things consistent and tamped level without going crazy with futzing around, it shouldn't take forever to prep a shot.

5. Your temps sound fine. Usually temps are measured as the water is leaving the group and should be around 200, but you will see some swings with the Gaggias small boiler. The paper cup test should give you in the high 190s. Although it's actually not too hard to tell if your shots are too way hot or cold just by tasting them (try some shots at a god cafe if you need to calibrate). You'll never get perfectly consistent temps, so I wouldn't worry about things being a few degrees off here or there, but it's really easy to end up way off the mark by playing with things too much (trying to hit specific temps by using the steam switch or flushing a lot). It's a lot (a lot!) easier when you're learning to just get a good forgiving coffee and accept that you're going to be off a few degrees.

6. Don't assume that every shot is going to be great, most of them will be bad to average, but still taste everything, especially the weird looking shots. The goal isn't to make perfect shots every time right from the start, the goal is to learn how to improve your shots by tasting them and figuring out what you could do better next time. Things like temp and grind should be very obvious when you taste, and things like tamping will be almost impossible to notice (unless you really screw it up). Also try using a spoon and tasting the espresso at different points during a shot. Once you can get a pretty good feel for what things like over/under extracted, too bitter/sour, too strong/weak taste like it will be a lot easier to get consistently good shots.

Good luck! And buy some extra dish towels/rags, it can get messy

Thanks for the detailed advice, it is truly appreciated!

Yes, towels. I don't think I've ever used so many towels in my life. Luckily I already had 4 nice ones for my Nespresso, but I think I may need to double or triple that collection.

Not sure if anyone cares, but I thought I'd check back in with an update. I've been getting great beans from both of the roasters near me. I bought a Bodum Bistro grinder from a local Starbucks for very cheap and have modified it to grind finer. Today I received my Silvia steam wand and a bottomless pf, both from 1st-line. I am getting fantastic shots with the correct pull times/temps and no spritzes or channeling on my first couple of uses of the naked pf!

The shots I'm pulling aren't god-level, but they're better than what I can get at any cafe in my area, very excited to be on board! Thank you all for your initial advice!