Hi All: As I try to dial in my new Linea I used my I.R. thermometer with its plug in thermocouple probe to measure brew water at the group outlet (without p.f., free flowing). I tested the probe in boiling water and it reads 212° so it is at least close in calibration. It seems like it takes too long to get a stable reading so the boiler is not able to keep up and the measurement is meaningless. Do RTD temperature meters read faster? I've noticed that my shot tastes about right but it is not as warm as it should be. I preheat the cup and my steamed milk is (by feel) at the right temp but my latte seams not as hot as I'd like. Are the factory program settings not the best? On a slightly different subject I was a bit disappointed that "factory PID" turned out to be a add on Fuji under the machine and not an integral controller with a front panel readout/control setup.
KDM

Congrats on the new Linea!! Don't sweat the offset of the PID just yet. Get used to using the machine and try different temp settings and see where you end up. I don't think you will have any luck setting the offset using an ir thermometer. Rent a Scace device (there's one for rent here: For rent: Scace thermofilter and Fluke 54-II thermometer). Can you post a picture of where the PID is mounted? Also, do you know the specs of the factory settings for the PID? Since I added the PID to my unit, I would be very interested in how the factory does it!

You seem to be mixing up a lot of terms: IR thermometry, thermocouples and RTDs. They are all different. You seem to be saying you have an RTD probe connected to your IR temp meter via a wire connection. One thing you should know is that RTD devices, while they have some advantages, are significantly slower than thermocouples. They are not the same thing; the terms are not interchangeable. So the fact that your RTD device seems too slow seems about right. I don't know what you are using, but obtaining a REAL thermocouple to plug into your meter might be possible (and cheap). Hope that helps at least a little.

Edit - Ditto on Mitch's comment. I presume you know IR metering doesn't work well on water (which is why I assume yours has the ability to plug a wire into it for alternative methods of measurement).

Mitch: Thanks!! Ill get a pic and the settings to post, latter this week.

Al Dehyde; My IR Fluke has a plug-in thermocouple, that was what I used. My question was "Do RTD meters read faster then T/C types". I know the difference. Omega tells me that since thermocouples can be made smaller then RTD's the lesser mass can get up to temp quicker.

Eric: I assumed when I heard about "factory PID" that it would be on the control panel. I am considering moving it to an enclosure out of the machine, but not this week. As I read Fuji's tech notes you can add a remote readout/control unit to the existing controller with two wires, shielded. That might be neater though more $.
KDM

Eric: Did you mean that the Fuji is better then the, I assume, Gicar built-in in the GS3?
D

duke-one wrote:.... "Do RTD meters read faster then T/C types". I know the difference. Omega tells me that since thermocouples can be made smaller then RTD's the lesser mass can get up to temp quicker.

KDM

Yes, much, and the smaller the T/C the faster it reads

All temperature measurement devices have some specifications associated with them. Look at the thermal time constant for each device/sensor. Not all are created equal. There are different categories of all types - thermocouples/RTD/NTC's etc. Some are fast and some are slow. Also just because you have a face sensor done not necessarily guarantee a fast measurement. You need to also consider the measurement instrument. A Scace device and a Fluke meter is pretty fast for measuring espresso machines. The Scace uses a low mass sheath (1/16" Dia) with a T type thermocouple. It's pretty darn fast. Very close to a Bead Type thermocouple (K Type). You can always check your system in some boiling water. Just to get an idea, take your system at room temperature and place the sensor in boiling water (sea level). Measure the time it takes to get within 1 degree of boiling. The Scace with a Fluke is about 1.5 seconds (probably less because it is hard to catch the exact moment and stop the timer). If yours is greater than 4 seconds, it will be very difficult to check an espresso machine.


BillC

Thanks Bill; that is the exact info I wanted, in detail.
KDM