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Switching places of steam and water valve

Postby Giovanni on Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:52 am

I have searched for anyone that have changed the placing of valves in the front of a E-61 machine. I can't see any big troubles with this. But I can't find any posts about it.
I am right-handed like most people and think it will be easier to hold the pitcher in my right hand when steaming, or is it meaningful that most brands have this setup?
My machine stands next to a wall on its left side which makes it a bit tight as well. So I think changing places could help my very poor milk-steaming. // Johan.
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Postby Randy G. on Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:52 am

While it is theoretically possible to do that, most of those valves are supplied by copper pipes, and many machines just don't have the space to run the plumbing across to the opposite sides. It might also complicate servicing in the future. Bending the copper to fit, be routable, and be done without near-total disassembly of the machine might also be a challenge. I would start by opening the machine and having a long, sober look at what it would entail.
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Postby allon on Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:00 am

Yeah, it depends on the machine; on my CMA machine, I could swap easily by changing a couple of fittings on the top of the boiler, because it uses a dipper tube for the water on one side, and similar fittings for steam. The only change is I'd have to remake the pressure gauge pipe because it tees off of the steam delivery pipe fitting.

On the Giotto, judging from internal diagrams, you'd have to criss cross pipes...or flip the boiler around ;-) Not an easy task on such a compact machine.

The Giotto seems to get the hot water from a fitting on the side of the boiler cap, a more common arrangement than the dip tube.
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Postby genovese on Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:16 pm

I have searched for anyone that have changed the placing of valves in the front of a E-61 machine.

I've gone back and forth several times (using, not modding) between machines with left-vs-right wands, and each time the idea of swapping the valves has occurred to me, but before I ever started down that road, I found myself getting used to the change of side. By now, I couldn't care less, and I suspect you will quickly reach that point after living with it for a very short time. The one constant in my setups, especially when space is tight, is placing the grinder away from the steam wand, which keeps the grinder and its surroundings cleaner, and may allow two people to work without interference. And no, as much as I might have liked it, using my "preferred side" of the moment never helped my milk-pouring skills.
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Postby miKe mcKoffee on Thu Dec 29, 2011 2:20 am

While switching the steam/hotwater valve and plumbing positions could be a fun project, I highly doubt it will make squat of a difference in your steaming ability. That just takes tons of practice and suddenly it happens, velevty microfoam. I hold the pitcher in my right hand regardless side of machine steam tip on. Except sometimes in my left for a change of pace because which hand doesn't matter much anymore either.

I first learned with tip on right with Silvia. Upgraded to Bricoletta and steam now on left. Biggest challenge at first was learning to steam with more steam power. Then turned professional and discovered real steam power, at first a challenge and now it's harder to steam on much slower prosumer class machines. But left or right doesn't matter, use both sides daily on our Lineas. Have fast tip on one side for lattes, slower tip (smaller not fewer holes) on the other for caps and machs.

You spent lots of money on your espresso machine, don't be afraid to spend some money on milk to learn. And there is of course practicing with a drop or 2 of dishsoap and water, just don't taste the results. :roll:
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Postby Giovanni on Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:20 am

I have opened the machine and can't see any big troubles with changing. There are space enough and I think I can reuse the water tubes to the steam connection and buy new one to the water. They have to be crossed.

This isn't really about if it's easier or not with right hand as much as my space in the kitchen on the left side, and the fact that enjoy to play and rebuild my machine.

It was a bit surprisingly to see that the boiler wasn't insulated. Another job for the future
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Postby Randy G. on Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:25 am

With my machine on the cart, I have it placed on the left edge as that is the side the steam wand lives. I can move around to the end of the cart to steam milk and look right down into the pitcher when doing so without having to bend over to see what is going on. It makes it a lot easier to keep the pitcher level and get the tip of the wand at the depth I desire. .. This is starting to sound like a supermarket romance novel.
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Postby khestehave on Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:07 am

Hey Giovanni!
I have this EXACT problem...just posted about it yesterday (sorry HB:o). I also have space issues in the kitchen and am looking to buy a VBM Domobar Jr HX and want to do a switch-a-roo of water and steam. I even wrote to the factory to see if they would do it from the factory, but no answer just yet. I would REALLY like to hear what you did and how hard it was to do. Pictures would also be amazing to see.
Thanks in advance
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Postby cannonfodder on Sat Mar 17, 2012 11:14 pm

You should be able to switch them. The holes in the front panel are the same. You will have to do some custom pipe work but if you have a pipe bender you should be ok. Problem with bending small diameter pipe is keeping it from buckling. Also keep in mind these are European machines, so the tubing is metric. One trick you can try with the pipe, fill it with sand. The sand will help keep the tubing from buckling in on itself when you make the tight bends. You will also need to solder on some bullet ends for the fittings and as I said, keep in mind these are metric so NPT fittings will not work.
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Postby Giovanni on Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:21 pm

Sorry Klaus, didn't see your post. The projekt for the Day is changing pump. I still need to change place of water and steam. //Johan.
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