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Starbucks Barista (Saeco Aroma) Brewing Pressure

Postby Sketcher on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:16 pm

Hi Everyone,

I know, my machine isn't great but university wasn't cheap for either my wife or I but I do aspire to better things. Anyway, we've had the Barista Dec 2005 when it was purchased new. However, we went through a period (1 year) when it was stored away (heated) during some massive renovations. I have to say though, it's been good to us. Anyway, We recently tried to get it going again and basically when it turns on it heats well, primes well, steams as well as ever (I see you at the back there snickering at my tiny boiler) but doesn't brew well at all. When priming, the pump kicks in, as it does during brewing. I was able to compare the brewing to another identical machine though. With the portafilter off, we get a gentle sprinkling of hot water through the screen. With it on, we get about a drip of coffee every second and there's nothing resembling a puck in the portafilter at the end, just some swampy goop. I first tried to clean the machine by filling the reservoir with a light mix of lemon juice and water and running it repeatedly and retried it a few times on successive days (dare I mention I never descaled it in the first 3 years of ownership?) That didn't help, so I decided to take it apart. After mild difficultly, I was able to get at the tank (if the tiny excuse deserves the name), open it and found a good half a cup of limescale particles sitting in the bottom. My lemon juice job had loosened it all from the heater and boiler body but it all rested at the base of the tank. Anyway, I got rid of it all, thinking that'd be it for my problems and I'd be off to the races. Nope, still no pressure. The machine I compared it to has some nice jets of water pumping through the screen during brewing (no portafilter) while mine gives me a really gentle sprinkiling (as if through a watering can). One other thing, while brewing, the Ulka pump kicks in (through it's charateristically loud sound) but later goes very quiet, as if it's at maximum discharge pressure.

Because my machine primes just fine (nice powerful stream through the wand), and the steam is good, I think my problem may lie around the main screen. There are two means of mechanical pressure control on the machine from what I can see. First, there is a spring with a plastic ball on top which screws into the bottom of the boiler body. With adequate pressure in the boiler, the spring is overcome and lets hot, high pressure water into the screen area and into the portafilter below. Also, there is the spring in the base of the portafilter, which allows a small hole in it's base to open, allowing coffee to flow into the cups.

Either my pump doesn't produce enough pressure for some reason (but I don't think this is it because it works well on priming and makes all the right noises) or I still have a blockage but I'm hard-pressed to see how since I tore the machine down and rebuild it. All the parts are in excellent condition, save the portafilter which I'm going to clean next, but I think my issue may be exclusive of it because with no portafilter my discharge water is very low pressured. Any suggestions from others? I know it's a good excuse for a new machine but for the next couple of months I need a machine to hold me over until I can get into something more serious (and need time to appease the wife too).
Sketcher
 
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Joined: Mar 05, 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada

Postby Louis on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:38 pm

Sorry if this may seem too simple of a question:

Have you made sure your grind is not too fine? Have you tried making it coarser to see the effect?
Louis
 
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Location: Montréal, Qc

Postby Sketcher on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:41 pm

I admit we've favored too fine a grind at times (we again went bargain-basement with a Krups burr grinder) but it was one of my first thoughts so I've varied the coarseness quite a bit, to the point of being at the coarsest setting on the grinder (currently)
Sketcher
 
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Joined: Mar 05, 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada

Postby toenail on Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:47 am

Sketcher wrote:
With the portafilter off, we get a gentle sprinkling of hot water through the screen.

The machine I compared it to has some nice jets of water pumping through the screen during brewing (no portafilter) while mine gives me a really gentle sprinkiling (as if through a watering can).


These two lines stand out to me. On my Aroma I get the watering can dispersion of water with no PF in place and was under the impression that this is what you want. There should be no high pressure until there is resistance in front of the water (like a puck of coffee in a PF). I have also seen video on the net of "jet"-like streams of water from these machines and was under the impression that this was what you don't want and can be caused by partial clogs or incorrect torque applied to dispersion screen screw.

Are you positive you are not getting enough flow to the head without PF in place?

Is it possible that your flow to the head is fine but your PF basket is clogging with fines from the grinder giving you feeble output?

Has the mechanism in your PPF "frozen" due to lack of use/cleaning and won't allow for adequate passage of fluid?
toenail
 
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Postby Rosscopico0 on Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:54 am

If as you have said the brew water flow is not as it should be, but the priming seems fine, it sounds like there is something in your brew water path restricting your flow.
I would suggest pulling apart everything in the brew water path, if you cant find something blocking the water path, then your pump may have a blockage due to scale, or just need to be replaced.
Although I know very little about PPF setups, give me a commercial machine any day!
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Postby Sketcher on Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:55 am

Thank you all for your responses. Toenail was right though. I mistakenly assumed that the pressure to the portafilter should be high from my comparison machines jet style discharge with no portafilter in place. The test machine is pretty dirty too, but their portafilter was clean. I tested a clean portafilter on our machine and it works as well as new (I'm currently soaking our PF for a good cleaning).

Thanks again for all the responses. Now if only it made better coffee....
Sketcher
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Mar 05, 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada

Postby toenail on Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:49 pm

You'd be surprised by the result this machine is capable of with an appropriate grinder, a modded PF and a little education. I've just done all this with a Saeco Aroma (essentially the same machine) and am amazed at what I'm getting out of it.
toenail
 
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Location: Maine, USA

Postby Sketcher on Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:03 pm

Thanks again. I definitely don't regret owning it. It's been very dependable and after taking it apart and looking at higher spec machines, it's definitely not bad at all. The pump is really high quality and the boiler and heater assembly is rock solid too.
Sketcher
 
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Location: Calgary, Canada

Postby AustinBarista on Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:58 pm

This machine, although not the greatest by any stretch of the imagination, is very capable none the less. I suggest removing the pressurized gizmo, leaving a near-naked portafilter, and buy a 53mm tamper. I drilled off the bottom platic bit as well, and this is what i get now.
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Postby Sketcher on Sun Mar 14, 2010 1:03 pm

Nice vid, very good to see. I didn't mean to knock the machine, I agree it's a great buy especially on sale, I couldn't believe the used prices either, they're definitely worth the money. In your video, I see you still have the black plastic cover on the bottom of the PF. It also looks like you don't have the spring that causes the backspring in the PF once it's attached to the header. So I'm guessing you basically took out the large coil spring in the PF (and maybe the attached hinged mechanism which normally plugs the discharge hole?). I'm pretty lucky in that I have an extra PF for my machine, I'm definitely going to try a depressurized portafilter.

Thanks for the video, much appreciated.
Sketcher
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Mar 05, 2010
Location: Calgary, Canada

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