benpiff wrote:@cmin, is there anything else specific you'd like me to find out? I bet a lot more opinions will be posted after the Home Barista gathering on the 28th.

Nothing particular off hand, but appreciate any other info you can throw together using them. So it sounds like they fixed that pump/sound issue with the 2B?

What pump/sound issue? Had my 2B just over a year, extremely quiet including virtually vibration rattle free.

I didn't notice mine was louder until I played with the Lucca. But I still like the sound of my 2B over the R58, with its distinctive humming sound mid-shot:
I wouldn't assume the PID was significantly more expensive than for other machines, but I happened to check the price of the 2B PID before buying mine, and was pretty impressed that it was $120 (and we could easily check this). Very few parts for these machines seem to cost more than $100, including the bigger parts like heating elements, relays. Having never had a dual boiler fail apart from an Expobar Brewtus heating element, I find it pretty funny that the Profitec could be that much better under the hood. I've seen the inside of the R58 and the 2B, and I haven't heard of quality issues with either these or the Duettos. But I feel like Quick Mill has a more solid history of bulletproof machines (so they should all be very affordable to run for the next 5-10 years). I would never have considered the 2B a V1, but I guess it does seem right that the Lucca has already touched up some things that many people will appreciate. I bet if you call them and get their thoughts on these machines, you'll get more in depth insights into what they love about each of these machines. I don't think they like the Rockets as much, so they aren't stocking them in their showroom. They seem the most dedicated to building lasting relationships based on total satisfaction.

If anyone wants to chat about these machines, that might work better for sharing experiences (at least, I find that more fun than typing).

I don't think it's that much better the layout is overall more neat, and yes the SS boilers is a true eye-candy, but I would definitely have preferred other types of safety valve and vacuum breaker (the one Profitec uses are a clear sign of holding cost down, and is not very innovative), and I'm not a huge fan that Profitec have placed one of the most expensive part, the RPM motor underneath a boiler just like Rocket, I find Quickmills solution better, but then you have to live with Quickmills messy wiring and essential electronics placed on the base underneath the tank, but then you do get some more innovative solutions, like drain plugs for both boilers, pump that can be adjusted from outside the case, and a safety vacuum valve that drains directly in the drip-tray, and a steam boiler that doesn't use the same parameters as the brew-boiler.

but most part is generic, so I can't see where the improved quality is, except for a better internal layout, and the use of SS boilers. If we look away from the price for a moment, then it really down to three thing, design, layout and solutions, I like the well thought out solutions of a quickmill, the design differences is so subtle that is not a deal breaker for me. It's still basically a square polished metal box, with an E-61 group attached to but I do like the layout of a Profitec, except for the motor, but that is nitpicking it definitely look easier to service then a Quickmill or the very cramped Duetto.


My experienced with the quickmill is mixed, the espresso have been great from day one, and it's steaming capabilities is good for this class of machines, and it's so forgiving. But I have had a few issues with mine, like a leaking steam boiler, and cavitation problems, the last problem is a problem that can happen on any Rotary pump DB machine running on tank, so I can live with it, but leaking boiler should have been detected in the quality control, mine didn't happen under shipping!.

I don't think it's that loud, but then again I haven't played with a lucca.

Compass Coffee wrote:What pump/sound issue? Had my 2B just over a year, extremely quiet including virtually vibration rattle free.

I thought I remembered 2B owners talking about pump sound, maybe it was something else, or was the cavitation issue, can't remember lol

you wrote it yourself, it was indeed cavitation

And since the Lucca is designed the exact same way, there is a good chance, it suffers from the same issue

Not saying some haven't experienced a cavitation issue running off tank. I say may suffer from the same issue not necessarily a good chance. And if I saw that symptom I would be on the phone with tech support until it was resolved. It should not be happening.

FWIW I've been running my 2B off tank for over a year of daily use and have not seen the issue. This includes 3 times not filling the tank in a timely manner running low and having the machine power off mid shot. Which is what it's supposed to do by design. Each time came right back up when added water to tank without skipping a beat.

Does Lucca M58 have pre-infusion?

I am trying to decide between Profitec 700 pro, Lucca M58 and Duetto 3. Any suggestions on these? I will pull the trigger on one of these next 24 hrs but here are my concerns:

- profitec - newcomer and some issues reported to date. I do like the clean lines.
- Lucca - do not know much about this model - looks sexy though.
- Duetto 3 - looks good but I really like the size of the drip tray as I cannot plumb the out line.

The only other machine I considered so far was La Cimbali Casa Junior (HX).

Any advice is appreciated.

malling wrote:You are not going to look at the interior on a daily basis, so it doesn't really matter that much, as long as you can maintain and repair it without to much hassle.

I would disagree somewhat. The fact that an engineering team takes the trouble to make something look as "clean" on the inside as the outside says a lot about a product to me. It gives me faith that they didn't use shortcuts or cut corners---whether the result would be visible or not.

afmodb wrote:Does Lucca M58 have pre-infusion?

I am trying to decide between Profitec 700 pro, Lucca M58 and Duetto 3. Any suggestions on these? I will pull the trigger on one of these next 24 hrs but here are my concerns:

- profitec - newcomer and some issues reported to date. I do like the clean lines.
- Lucca - do not know much about this model - looks sexy though.
- Duetto 3 - looks good but I really like the size of the drip tray as I cannot plumb the out line.

The only other machine I considered so far was La Cimbali Casa Junior (HX).

Any advice is appreciated.

Cimbali Casa Jr is a whole league apart in terms of build quality. It's a true commercial grade unit. I had a Duetto 2 and always regretted not trusting my gut and getting the DT1. Although needs and wants always vary between individuals, any time I see someone teetering between something like a Duetto and a Cimbali DT1, I reinforce the fact that the Cimbali is going to outlast any of the others and as long as you don't mind flushing a HX, you'll have more flexibility when it comes to bouncing around from one coffee to another in a quick manner. Shot quality is similar, and both quite good, but steaming is worlds apart better on the DT1 as well.