CantComplain wrote:Thanks Mike, you've confirmed everything I thought (well with a "4 9's" level of certainty!). I have a fire extinguisher nearby because I'm that guy but I hope to get this tested later tonight. Wish me luck!

OK, thanks all again. I was able to get power hooked up and on to the next step!

SO I discovered two problems with power applied. Plus a small occasional trickle that may be out of an overflow tube that I'm not going to worry about now.

1.) Group 2 seems to work fine. I get water out of the group when I press any of the buttons. Lukewarm water. But group 1 struggles to manage more than a few drops. The pump picks up the water with no problem and the gauge stays right at 9 when it's pulling on the 2nd group. It seems to pulsate at the hose end when trying to draw for group 1. Group 2 is a hard suction. The Gicar has a blinking light, but it blinks when I use group2 as well. Stops when I do nothing. So is this more likely a flowmeter issue or a blockage somewhere?

2.) after 45 minutes with the machine set on "2" I got no indication that the heating element is working. No steam, no pressure on the gauge, no sounds, no heat period. Any advice on where to look first? The red light to the left of the gauges comes on, so I assume that there is power where there needs to be.

I'd complain about these issues but I enjoy a good challenge.

CantComplain wrote:The Gicar has a blinking light,

That manual (pg 30) that Allen found had a little info on blinking lights that might be useful.

6.13 Alarms
A flashing Led on the first button of pushbutton array indicates a malfunction on the flow meter.
A flashing Led on the second button of all the pushbutton arrays indicates a malfunction on the automatic
boiler refill system (jammed solenoid valve, insufficient water from the main water system, etc.). After 1'30",
the pump motor will shut down.

Typically, controllers shut off power to the elements when autofill problems are detected.

P.S.
Re:

Compass Coffee wrote:99.99% sure all commercial 220v espresso machines in the US are single phase, 2 hots and single common wiring, same as residential dryer or stove. You may encounter 4 plug 220v in newer residential which is 2 hot, common plus additional ground.

Is a quibble, I know, but I think it's more precise to say that US 220V single phase espresso machines use 2 hots and an earth/ground. Have no connection to a common/neutral wire. Your dryer outlet and plug (NEMA 10-30) does have two hots and a neutral, and the neutral was often wired to the chassis/ground, which isn't a very good idea. That's why they changed the code (in 1996) to require 4 plug hot-hot-neutral-ground for 220V dryer outlets that require a neutral.

Returning to the original question, "how do you set a selling price?", realistically what you have at present is only worth its scrap metal or parts value. The motor and pump a hundred bucks or so, ECU maybe $50.00, touchpads the same, groups maybe $50.00 each. The rest whatever it will bring as scrap metal. Depreciation for tax purposes means that the written down value is zero.

If you're willing to actually renovate the machine (clean, descale, fix minor electrical and leak problems) then resell as a fully working machine complete with portafilters, baskets etc. then maybe $1200.00. Depends on how you value your labour, as a hobby or a business.

See my newsletter http://www.coffeeco.com.au/newsletter/october2014.html for the reasoning behind the valuations.

Alan

homeburrero wrote:) 6.13 Alarms
A flashing Led on the first button of pushbutton array indicates a malfunction on the flow meter.

Thanks for the reminder to RTFM. I had been working on a printout of this manual to fire it up, and had forgotten about the troubleshooting section that MAY shed some light on the head 1 situation. I think the referenced quote above is referring to the push buttons for single, double, etc., but what's flashing is the LED on the Gicar flowmeter (?) itself that's only visible if I remove the top trays.

in the troubleshooting section I think these are the most relevant to my symptoms:

p.35
problem:
clogged water circuit
defective solenoid

solution:
check that injector, upper circulation tube, spray nozzle and solenoid are not clogged
check displacement meter and its valves
check solenoid, its wiring and the fuse in the ECU

I was thinking heating element as well, but based on your input, I'm holding out hope that that's due to the other problem and if I fix it, then the other will correct itself. Here's hoping.

Any input on the any of the above problems or solutions from anyone would be appreciated, my next step is to google a technical diagram of the machine and start disassembling once I find out what the water circuit and various solenoids are.

OK, I've stripped the group that wasn't able to produce more than a few drips. It doesn't appear to be blocked in any of the components. The impeller spins fine in the flowmeter, the upper circulation tube is clear. Minor buildup in some components but overall clear.

I do have a couple questions for the group though:

1.) The flowmeter has an "in" and an "out." On the "in" side, it looks like the pipe diameter is super small. I didn't want to jam anything in there to clean it because I wasn't sure if that wasn't by design. Can someone confirm if that should be full bore or significantly smaller diameter?
2.) the exhaust tube has some buildup on the outside but appears clean on the inside. But it seems to have a lot of back pressure in there. I guess I was assuming it was just a length of open pipe. Is that normal?
3.) The solenoid and 3 way valve. I can't separate the valve from the brass plate like in the second picture on http://www.couriercoffeeroasters.com/wordpress/?p=342page. (Great description of the solenoid process BTW). If I had to guess, I think this is where my blockage is. May just "spring" (get it?) for the new valve. Is anyone aware of a process to clean this component, even if I can't separate the valve from the base plate?
and edit: 4.) the stalk through the top of the group looks like this https://www.espressoparts.com/la-san-ma ... t-assembly but not quite. It's missing the jets(?) at the bottom. I can't blow much air through it but it seems like that's normal. Can anyone comment on that?

The smaller inlet on the flowmeter is normal as it is intended to increase the velocity of the water to "more better" operate the impeller.

Re the solenoid valve, put the brass section in a vice and simply unscrew the cylinder. If, for whatever reason, you cannot do this, any auto mechanic or espresso repair shop would do it in a heartbeat.

After the valve is disassembled, soak the parts in a glass of white vinegar for an hour or so.

erics wrote: Re the solenoid valve, put the brass section in a vice and simply unscrew the cylinder. If, for whatever reason, you cannot do this, any auto mechanic or espresso repair shop would do it in a heartbeat.

Thanks for the info. I didn't want to use the big guns on it because I wasn't clear if the parts were supposed to come apart at first, but I'll give it a couple extra ft lbs of effort and see if I can break it loose.

OK, a little more oomph and I broke it loose. It's sister was easier (there's certainly a joke to be found in that but I'm not going there)

Now I am absolutely certain I've found the problem with the group. Group 1 was all gunked up and the spring snapped when I took it out. Group 2 looks like it just rolled off the showroom. I feel like I can clean up the gunked up one, but can I get that spring separately or am I looking at replacing the entire valve?

As always, appreciate any input.

Compass Coffee wrote:You can always plug a 30A rated machine into a 40 or 50A circuit. No different concept than plugging a 3A grinder into 20A 110v kitchen circuit. The appliance will not draw more than it's designed to draw regardless what the circuit is rated to handle.

<On soapbox> Just a little FYI. Running a lower amperage rated machine on a larger circuit will, in theory, work fine. The reason any electrical device is rated as they are is for safety. A properly installed 50A 220v circuit in the USA will be using a code appropriate breaker and appropriate wire gauge to carry the load that will not overheat at 100% capacity. A 30A machine's wiring is code appropriate for 30A load. If something is wrong electrically on a machine rated for 30A and the machine starts carrying more than the 30A it is designed for, the 50A breaker will not trip and cut power. Load will continue until wires in the machine rated only for 30A overheat, melt the insulation, and start a fire (or worse). Using an oversize breaker is the equivalent of putting "a penny in a fuse box". Circuit breakers a specific to the design of the entirety of the circuit+device used, and breakers are there to cut power if anything goes wrong. Plugging in a machine that is of unknown condition into a mis-matched circuit would be ill-advised, and I doubt any homeowners insurance policy would cover resulting damages. <off soapbox>

CantComplain wrote:<image> OK, I've stripped the group that wasn't able to produce more than a few drips. It doesn't appear to be blocked in any of the components. The impeller spins fine in the flowmeter, the upper circulation tube is clear. Minor buildup in some components but overall clear

I would also check test the solenoid coil as well. I don't know the specific resistance that is acceptable for your coil, but at a minimum test for continuity if you can't find specifics for your coil.