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Salvatore Semi Auto dis-assembly and descale questions - Page 2

Postby sminar on Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:36 am

I have removed the heat exchanger. The boiler is out of the machine, the heater is removed from the bottom and I have a pile of tubes :) Quite a mess in the kitchen at the moment.

I have taken quite a number of pics with my Droid X during the process. I will post them once I get a chance to take them off the phone go through them. I missed a few key shots of the boiler, and HX right after removal and before hand rinse/cleaning. I also missed taking shots of the gunk showing up in the pyrex measuring cup during the flush after the citric acid bath. I was working solo with hands unsuitable for phone manipulation at the time. I will try to shoot a useful set of pics before reassembly as well.

The outside of the HX was pretty clean after the citric acid boiler flush. Just a touch of scale and some black film at the top. It cleaned up pretty easily with a soft scrub sponge. Not sure about the inside, but can't imagine it would be too bad. I've not removed the fittings from the top of the HX. I don't think removing them would improve my access or visibility much.

The boiler had a lot of gunk in it when I first opened it up. Most of it came out with just a hot rinse and a sponge. There is still scale at the water line, but it's not excessive.

The heating element is similar, with just slight scaling remaining. I figure it's worth the extra effort to clean what I can while it's all apart. I won't go overboard with the boiler walls, but I'll make sure to get rid of the scale at the water line. Most likely, I'll go ahead and soak the tubing, boiler, HX and heating element in a stronger citric acid solution, keeping an eye on it.

I'll check for sour salt at Safeway. My first source came from the spice area in Whole Foods. They didn't have a big supply and you buy it by weight. Not cost effective. My second source was from the local brewing supply. They didn't have it in bulk, just in pre-packaged 4tbsp bags. $1.50 a bag. Not too bad, but I've heard tell of getting it much cheaper in bulk.
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Postby erics on Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:55 am

I've not removed the fittings from the top of the HX.

Smart move, as those fittings have a particular orientation (as you know) which could present a tiny problem on reassembly. He should have used different fittings there but . . .

Heat your descaling solution in a "dollar store" stock pot and stick the small parts in there.
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Postby sminar on Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:50 am

Weekend update.

Found citric acid for $6 / lb at the local brewing store.
Soaked all items in a 10 tbsp / liter solution. The solution was made with 190 degree instant hot water. I only soaked most items for 2 hours. That seemed to do the trick. I did a fair bit of work with a small. soft brass wire brush. I had a small stainless wire brush that was a bit coarser but only used on really stubborn areas.

I'm still working on ordering new washers and other wear items. Haven't had much luck with that yet.

I spent a bit of time taking photos of the parts this afternoon. I will upload them when I get a chance.

I've reassembled most of the pieces hand tight. I'll finish the final alignment and tightening tomorrow. I'm a little concerned about getting things tightened enough but not too much. I suppose it's best to start with everything just a bit tighter than hand tight, then snug down as necessary to stop leaks. Some spots could be tough when the machine is hot. I suppose gloves are a necessity or waiting for things to cool down enough.

I am sorely tempted to follow your steam/water valve switching advice. I've held off since they were working fine (aside from the stink) and because I don't have replacement cotter pins. I suspect that dis-assembly is pretty straightforward, but it wasn't obvious without pulling the pins. Do these require lube?

It's been quite a process. I never thought I would learn so much about E-61 HX machines. It's a pretty amazing device. Considering it's been in use for 10 years, most of it looks really good. There were two bolts on the bottom of the boiler that were a touch loose. A very small leak was present with staining between the heater and boiler and on the teflon washer. That and just a few drips coming from the upper part of the group.

I found out that Salvatore uses phosphoric acid to descale / clean machines that he's servicing. He suggests being careful not to soak any chrome parts too long. I had already finished using citric acid solution. Not sure I would have braved phosphoric acid.

My E-61 group is a touch different than all of the levered group photos I've found. I only disassembled and cleaned the mushroom / upper group. I didn't pull the upper jet out or remove the "big screw" above the grouphead shower. I could blow through it and it looked pretty clean. I didn't disassemble any of the lower group either.

Can't wait to be able to have espresso at home again. Doing so much reading on HB for the machine restoration has led me to realize that I now need to improve my barista skills. I believe a bottomless portafilter is in my near future.
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Postby erics on Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:02 am

I would put a drop or two of olive oil on the threads of the various compression/flare fittings before assembly. The cleaning process you have subjected these fittings to has left them "high and dry" of any thread lubricant.

The idea of switching the complete steam and hot water valves simply originates with the imagined use that each has received.

Stainless steel cotter pins are available from any hardware store. Dow 111 or plumber's grease should be used on the threads of the steam/hot water valve stems as well as smearing a light film on the o-rings.

Put a 0.1 gram scale in your immediate future.
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Postby sminar on Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:34 am

Progress slowed a bit. I've had a bit of trouble identifying and sourcing proper parts. I think I have that sorted out now. Items should arrive in the next couple of days.

I took your advice on the olive oil. I removed each piece of tubing and swabbed the threads of each fitting using a q-tip dipped in olive oil before reassembling. Seems like excellent insurance. The fittings went back together quite nicely.

I'm going to hold off on swapping the steam and water valves. Aside from the stinky steam/water, I wasn't having any trouble with the valves. Salvatore had repaired the steam valve for me a few years ago. You are dead on regarding the usage pattern. We hardly use the water tap. I will consider swapping if a problem develops.

Aside from waiting on parts, I'm fretting about one reassembly issue. I would almost swear that when I opened the top group head gicleur nut, there was a spring surrounding the gicleur tubular filter. The first two pics were taken as I first opened it up:

Image

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This is a pic I just took to demonstrate what it would look like with a spring in this location:

Image

The reasons I'm fretting about this:
1) I can't see a reason for a spring to be in this location
2) The same sized spring is found in the steam and water wand as part of the seal, and one was missing

The most likely truth is that somehow my memory is incorrect, the spring does not belong around the gicleur filter and came from the steam wand. Another possibility is that it was put in the wrong location during the last service. A third possibility is that a spring should be there and the steam wand spring is missing or lost.

Sigh. Any thoughts?

P.S. Bottomless portafilter has been ordered. I already have an appropriate scale - purchased during the pine wood derby building years. It will be interesting to find out how far off I've been in my dosing. Unlikely I'll use the scale regularly. My wife and kids are already starting to worry about my newfound interest in espresso.
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Postby HB on Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:56 am

sminar wrote:The most likely truth is that somehow my memory is incorrect, the spring does not belong around the gicleur filter and came from the steam wand.

I've never seen a spring around the E61 gicleur, but evidently the Faema does have one IF a flat circular filter is installed:

Image
See Espresso Machine Parts > Faema > Coffee Group > E61 from Cafe Parts

Cafe Parts lists the flat filter #19 as "48624 - Jet Filter Ø 10 Mm" and the spring #16 as "49527 - Jet Spring Ø 8 X 20 Mm". The E61 renditions I've seen have a cylindrical filter like you posted in the photo above and no spring.
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Postby sminar on Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:38 pm

I am no longer fretting!

Boy, the pics I took seem to show a spring present at first disassembly. I remember it as being there and also remember being surprised that there wasn't a spring when I removed the steam wand. However, I'm working with a memory that has been nearly coffee free for many weeks. I had been planning to put the spring in the wand, but that nagging doubt forced my query.

I have come to really appreciate the organization and diagrams on cafeparts.com. Very helpful.

Thanks for the help Dan.
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Postby sminar on Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:36 pm

Hi all,

Sorry to resurrect this old thread. I have intended to follow up for quite a while with a status update and Salvatore images in case they might help someone out. Family health challenges have kept me busy, but I'm happy to report that my Salvatore has been back in service for many months.

The reassembly and return to service went fairly well. I initially had a handful of leaks at various fittings. Careful snugging of the fittings as the machine warmed up took care of those. I do have a very very slight bit of leakage from the top of the E61, likely due to an imperfect washer. I can't hear it and it's not enough to drip, but if I watch carefully I can see tiny bubbles sneaking out. I can see evidence of the leak in the latest pictures.

I was initially concerned that I had incorrectly set the height of the boiler probe as I was getting wetter steam than I remember from before. But that appears to have settled into just a bit of wet steam at the first blowoff, then consistent steam thereafter.

I have operated the Salvatore without the cover on for many months. Initially this was to watch for leaks and have easy access for final tweaks, but I also intended to grab a few "after" photos. About 8 weeks after it had been in daily use, I became concerned that the 10+ year old pump was starting to have trouble, so I picked up a new ULKA pump and installed it. The new pump is the 52W version and operates a bit quieter than the original 40W version. I did open up the original pump. It appears to be in very good condition despite it's age. It's possible that it could have continued operating for a long time, but I feel better having the new pump installed.

Hopefully the pictures below will be useful for those curious about the Salvatore semi-auto. Please forgive the high quantity and seeming lack of organization of the photos. The photos should be in the order they were taken. I took quite a few at the start of the project to keep track of assembly details and part information. I snapped a number of pics to show what I found, bits of the cleaning process, the parts before reassembly and then the assembled unit (sans cover). I originally had 300+ photos. I'm posting about 1/3 of those. A bit of overkill perhaps, but I found it useful to have many views during the reassembly. Hopefully someone will find them interesting and helpful.

Thank you all for your help and support. Very much appreciated. Thanks also to Salvatore and Wendy for my wonderful machine and your excellent support over the years. I look forward to seeing you the next time I'm in town.

Best,

Steve

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sminar
 
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Postby bowdenoles on Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:46 pm

Your post is great, there doesn't seem to be a lot of these machines out there and I am glad to see that it is a doable project.

I did have a question, I have the same model and have had problems with reduce flow of water coming out of the Salvatore group head. It builds great steam but there seems to be restriction with the group head. It was working fine yesterday, but this morning the water flow was a dribble. I can't figure out how to get the group head screen out to see if there is an obstruction? Or should I look elsewhere? If the pump was bad would it still build pressure?

The machine was purchased from Salvatore in July 2008 and only bottled water has been used.

Thanks!
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Postby Randy G. on Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:13 pm

Steve: I would secure or move the red wire that rests on the pump to save it from wear. Looks good otherwise. Funny- that spring that probably belongs in the valve that ended up in the gicleur area... The one photo missing from the post is one with teh valve disassembled. Isn't it always that way!?

Bill: If you have the E-61 group:

The group screen is under the very top nut. The screen pulls out. Looking into the void where the screen was is the gicleur - (French for "Jet" like in a carburetor). One of those two parts (screen and gicleur) are the main suspects for restricted flow. After that it is a longer list including:
- Scale
- Worn internal group parts not allowing full opening of the brew valve
- Weak or clogged solenoid valve
For details on disassembly, illustrated, see my article HERE.
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