I've recently upgraded from an original BES900XL Breville DB to a Rocket R58 R2. While the BDB has served me well, I have had service problems that revealed some issues with the Breville support organization that made me want to look at a standard E61 system which I was confident would be supported long-term. My only other beef with the BDB was weak steam. I could always create usable microfoam, but it took a long time to get there. A recent experience on a commercial-class machine's steam wand kinda blew my mind and then had me looking to upgrade.

The espresso quality on the new machine is fantastic and I have no problems with the brew process. Where I'm struggling has been the steam. The steam from the R58 is FAR more powerful than the BDB I'm used to, but I am unable to reliably produce usable microfoam like I could with the BDB. In basically every case I create bubbly foam that is poorly integrated with the rest of the milk. I've tried working with the stock 1.5mm 2-hole tips and with the included 1.2mm 2-hole tips with similar results. I purge the wand before and after every use. I've adjusted the steam boiler temp up and down. I've tried steaming a little off to the side of the pitcher during the stretch phase (to create a single rotating whirlpool), and I've tried steaming towards the center (to create two whirlpools on either side). Everything sounds like it should, but at the end I'm left with big bubbles and no integration.

I also have a couple of steam-related issues that I'm waiting on SCG support to get back to me on which may be pertinent here:

• First, I have what I'm pretty sure is a vacuum breaker leak. Take a listen to this. This sound appears to be coming from the top of the steam boiler, and is heard whenever the steam boiler is up to full pressure, louder and more consistent when I turn up the steam boiler temperature.
• Second, the shutoff of the steam wand isn't instant. On my BDB (with its weak steam), when I turned off the steam it shut off output pretty much immediately. When I shutoff the steam on the R58v2, I get steam escaping and water dripping for a few seconds. I think this is the cause for the bubbles that suddenly appear at the end of the foaming process. This issue is more pronounced after running the steam wand for 30 seconds or so. Here's a video of what that looks like.

Some other things I'll note:

• I've only had this thing for a couple weeks now, so it's possible I just need to learn "the trick" and everything is as it should be. I have been practicing milk foaming w/ cold water and a drop of soap for what seems like a hundred tries, and have steamed up maybe 20-30 pitchers of milk. I've been working w/ the BDB for about 3 years making a couple lattes every day.
• My workflow usually has me making an espresso first, then steaming the milk. I'm not really pushing the dual-boiler concept too hard and as a result everything seems to maintain temperature and pressure pretty well. I'd maybe expect this to be a problem if I was trying to run both boilers at the same time (with the brew boiler winning that argument), but my workflow is slow and single-threaded enough that I don't see that being an issue.
• The steam pressure doesn't appear to take any wild swings during the process. I have the boiler set at ~1.3, it will drop down to maybe 0.9 and hold there for as long as I run it.
• Another thread suggested removing the wand insulation. I am not at all used to a no-burn wand (after learning the "hot wand" lesson way more times than I'd care to admit to on the BDB), so it would be no problem for me if this wand was hot too. A holder for the wand was already installed so I'm good there. Is this a reasonable thing to do? How do I do it? Can the insulation be put back if I need to for some reason?

There have been a few threads regarding these sorts of problems but they're all old enough that I can't reply to them, so I'm starting a new one in hopes that I might glean some advice.

In regards to the steam cutoff, I've found this video from Espressotec where they are demonstrating the R58 steam wand: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abWcNjvS5zQ&t=80

I note here that the steam behaves just as I'd expect: when the valve is closed, the steam shuts off immediately. No hissing, no spitting, no steam and no water escaping afterwards.

I received an email back from SCG support telling me my steam wand behavior is completely normal. I'm having a hard time reconciling these two views. Do other R58 owners see this same behavior with their own steam wand?

I have owned (and used many more) three different Espresso machines over the years and have never had one that continued to steam after I shut off the valve like your videos shows your R58 does. That for sure is not functioning properly.
Did SCG review your video? That just can not be right.

Good luck getting it sorted out.
Mike

So far the only comment from SCG is the following:

I was able to have a technician look at the video of the steam wand and he said that it looks normal.

I replied with the other video showing it working like it should. They weren't able to download the MP3 for some reason and asked that I put it on DropBox. We'll see what they come back with.

I upgraded to the R58 in May. Even though my experience with can be minimum, perhaps this helps some.

The steaming is different than my original machine Silvia and using the Torid pitcher. With Silvia the stretching was longer, and the integration was off to the side. With the R58 the stretch is no more than 5 seconds at best, and the integration is in the centre of the pitcher. At least this is what is working at the moment. The microfoam seems to be turning out well; my latte art still sucks though.

For the vacuum breaker leak, if you turn up the brew boiler it may be the pressure relief valve triggered by the higher temperature.

Is your machine plumbed or pour over? If plumb perhaps the feed pressure needs to be checked. Mine is plumbed. The brew pressure was going over 10 bar and up. I adjusted the pump so that the pressure gauge reads 9 bar. It can still go to 10 bar, which I assume is due to puck expansion.

I can definitely say the stuff for the steam wand is immediate once the steam knob is turned far enough. If not closed enough, what you are showing could be achieved. The shut-off valve only needs to be very lightly closed. Typically I close the valve until it stops and then back off a bit. I have not tried letting it go for 30 seconds though.

I too have the 110v version with be boiler priority. It has not affected my process using the machine. This is even with making several drinks in a row, including Americano's for my wife. I will bleed the steam every morning (or whenever the machine is turned on as the service boiler is in the green) when the machine turns on, as well as run a cup of water through the group. Doing this seems to maintain the pressure fine. The service boiler pressure remains near 1.25-1.3.

As to removing the insulation for the wands, I like them as they are.

I hope this helps some.

Cheers!

maudy - thanks for all that info, that really is very helpful and has set some expectations for me.

In regards to closing the valve, I've found that there is roughly a one quarter turn difference between fully closed and fully open. In the video I'm taking it well past the "closed" point to make sure it's seating.

SCG support emailed me back and has now taken a look at the videos and has acknowledged that this doesn't look right. They've asked that I snap some photos of some of the internal pieces to get a sense of what might be leaking. This is what I was hoping for from them, so I'll work with support and update the thread here as to how that goes.

You can also try contacting Rocket Support directly. You may get better expertise; not to diss on Seattle Coffee Gear, just that Rocket support knows Rocket machines, Seattle Coffee Gear has to support many different brands.

SCG is sending me a new vacuum breaker to replace the existing unit which appears to be leaking. It's a cheap and easy fix so it's a good starting point.

A late chime-in on your steam valve behaviour: I have been having similar issues lately on my machine. Just now I purged the wand thoroughly, drained some water from the hot water jet into a cup and kept the steam tip submerged in it for 30 minutes or so to syphon the hot water up. Maybe some milk had been syphoned up the wand and some residue had gotten onto the valve seating. I have had this happen once or twice despite purging pre- and post-frothing, but it seems to work better now. Thought I'd suggest it to you.
Cheers
Bert

For what it is worth, the initial prep when the machine is turned on after allow to cool, such as overnight, helps maintain pressure.

- Wait for the machine to come up to temp - service pressure is 1.3bar (I fixed this in my post above). Effectively it is in the middle of the green section.
- Purge steam through the wand for at least 5 seconds. Pressure will continue to drop and then stop. Once stops, close.
- Once the service pressure is back to 1.3bar, purge a cup of water through the group. Watch the service pressure drop. It will again stabilize, and then turn off group. Allow the pressure to return.
- Now test it, purge the steam wand again and notice how the pressure does not drop as it did the first time.

Cheers!
S