Not sure if anybody else noticed, but the new Rocket Espresso pressure-profiling machine reached the American market today. It joins the Ambiente Espresso Vesuvius, as the only other E61 group head machine that can do pressure-profiling. They are both around the $4,000 price point and have similar features. It will be interesting to see a detailed review and comparison of these two machines. These machines are both ideal as a coffee lab testing machine, home use, or as a dedicated machine for pulling single origin espresso shorts.

They both seem to function like the Modbar, in that there is no ability to do manual pressure profiling, only able to upload programmed profiles for it to use. Never the less, being able to pressure-profile shots on this price point make it so much more appealing than the LM Linea Mini or any of the other higher end single group profiling machines that cost twice as much and can't save the profile to be repeated (expect for the Slayer).

Rocket Espresso R60V: https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/rocke ... so-machine

Ambiente Espresso Vesuvius http://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/Ambien ... -p7926.htm

These pictures are sent to me with permission to use from Rocket Espresso.

brettpavia wrote:They both seem to function like the Modbar, in that there is no ability to do manual pressure profiling, only able to upload programmed profiles for it to use. Never the less, being able to pressure-profile shots on this price point make it so much more appealing than the LM Linea Mini or any of the other higher end single group profiling machines that cost twice as much and can't save the profile to be repeated (expect for the Slayer).

Be interesting to learn how the R60V implements pressure profiling if using a standard rotary pump (as indicated on SGC website). Also be interesting to learn if you can cheat with the R60V for using manual pressure profiling like you can with the Vesuvius. V can set 1st stage of multiple programs at a desired pressure with ungodly long time (longer than any anticipated total shot time), have it on desired starting pressure (like 2 bar) and start shot, after desired time 2 bar switch programs to different programmed pressure (like maybe 12 bar for a couple seconds) then to another program for 9 bar for main shot duration, then another program for say 5 or 6 bar finish or back to 2 bar final even. Up to 5 possible pressures on the fly with V. Actual shot time continues counting while switching "programs". I didn't discover this trick but certainly use it! If it's possible to do similar with R60V would likely be limited to it's 3 programs for 3 pressures instead of 5 with V...

I'm very interested in the R60V as well. I had called SCG right after Rocket announced it at Host to get an idea of the price which is now published at $4,250. It seems like a competitive price point, but I'm still on the fence about that much extra to get the ability to pressure profile. I'm hoping that someone will post a review of it. When I talked to SCG they said the internals are the same as the commercial R8V and I'm guessing they are using a gear pump but I haven't been able to validate that yet. It would be nice too if they offered it with the Giotto side panels. I'm not a big fan of the black paneled version.

IMO for that price you should get some unique styling.

IMO for that price you could get a Linea Mini

Sure could, but without the potential in the cup benefits of pressure profiling especially lighter roasted coffees. Which benefits are very real btw.

Is that because pressure profiling can extract more out of lightly roasted coffee? I always have a hard time with light roasts. They seem to always blond too fast and anything above a 1/1 extraction ratio results in a bland watery shot.

The LM Linea Mini does not compare to either for these machines, as it is a fix profile machine. The paddle for pulling the shots is just an on/off switch and does not have the ability to do manual pressure-profiling.

F1 wrote:Is that because pressure profiling can extract more out of lightly roasted coffee? I always have a hard time with light roasts. They seem to always blond too fast and anything above a 1/1 extraction ratio results in a bland watery shot.

In a way, I would say yes. With a low pressure pre-brew phase (15-30s) you can grind much finer, which ends up with a higher extraction yield. My BDB can do this as well BTW with its programmable pre-infusion, but results are never as good as a more non-linear profile, and it's still a little hard to get just right.

I suspect an even more important point is the initial flow rate (rather than the pressure) for light roasts. Slayer addresses this with an adjustable needle valve, I haven't seen, but does the Vesuvius or will the R60V have one as well?

F1 wrote:Is that because pressure profiling can extract more out of lightly roasted coffee? I always have a hard time with light roasts. They seem to always blond too fast and anything above a 1/1 extraction ratio results in a bland watery shot.

Thats coz your pulling a shot by blonding and under extracting it
Light roasts need a bigger brew ratio than 1:! ignore blonding - work to a recipe - adjust via taste