Rocket Espresso Gioto Evo trips GFCI
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- Posts: 3
- Joined: 8 years ago
Hello all fellow coffee enthusiasts!
this is my first post, so thanks in advance for the hospitality
I have an ECM Gioto Evo with which I am in love for the last 5 years, where I g, it goes and it has been in a few places already:)
Yesterday evening I decided to descale it, using the 'overflill' method, so I had the autofill probe disconnected. the problem was that (for the first time) a lot of water came out of the Vacuum Breaker.
I stopped the machine, I connected the probe again, and then it suddenly tried the GFCI.
I realised that everything else looks to work OK, as it fills the tank ok, but when it is ready to start the Heating Element it trips the GFCI.
i tried since then to locate the problem, and it is really strange, as:
1. when I disconnect the Heating Element, no GFCI
2. I measured the Heating Element with a multimeter, it looks OK, normal continuity between the connectors, while there is no continuity to the ground.
3. I tried to connect an electric kettle to the HE, and when the control unit fires the HE, the kettle works OK
4. I took off the HE, and tried it in a bucket of water, connecting it directly to the power, it works OK.
it does not look like the HE is the problem, but when it is introduced to the 'system' it triggers the GFCI.
Any ides?
I thank very very much in advance!
this is my first post, so thanks in advance for the hospitality
I have an ECM Gioto Evo with which I am in love for the last 5 years, where I g, it goes and it has been in a few places already:)
Yesterday evening I decided to descale it, using the 'overflill' method, so I had the autofill probe disconnected. the problem was that (for the first time) a lot of water came out of the Vacuum Breaker.
I stopped the machine, I connected the probe again, and then it suddenly tried the GFCI.
I realised that everything else looks to work OK, as it fills the tank ok, but when it is ready to start the Heating Element it trips the GFCI.
i tried since then to locate the problem, and it is really strange, as:
1. when I disconnect the Heating Element, no GFCI
2. I measured the Heating Element with a multimeter, it looks OK, normal continuity between the connectors, while there is no continuity to the ground.
3. I tried to connect an electric kettle to the HE, and when the control unit fires the HE, the kettle works OK
4. I took off the HE, and tried it in a bucket of water, connecting it directly to the power, it works OK.
it does not look like the HE is the problem, but when it is introduced to the 'system' it triggers the GFCI.
Any ides?
I thank very very much in advance!
- Randy G.
- Posts: 5340
- Joined: 17 years ago
If there was descaler in the water that came out of the boiler I would give the internals a good rinse with distilled or RO water and blow it out with compressed air. The acids can play heck with electrical connections. If it got into any electrical devices (pressurestat, black box, power switch, etc.), These will have to be dealt with individually. After that, place it somewhere warm and with low humidity and allow it to dry out for a few days. The problem could be from water getting into the ends of the element or maybe into the pressurestat but not enough current draw with the element disconnected to trigger the GFCI.
EspressoMyEspresso.com - 2000-2023 - a good run, its time is done
- erics
- Supporter ★
- Posts: 6302
- Joined: 19 years ago
I assume you connected the heating element to the same GFCI outlet that the machine was connected to.I took off the HE, and tried it in a bucket of water, connecting it directly to the power, it works OK.
Even so, that was some pretty good troubleshooting you did and good advice from Randy G.
To make the rinsing a little easier, the pipe threading on the heating element is a standard BSPP thread, maybe 1-1/4", so you can always screw in a large pipe nipple.
- homeburrero
- Team HB
- Posts: 4863
- Joined: 13 years ago
First off, I hope you are highly qualified with respect to electrical safety. Any testing that involves powering up of rewired or experimentally connected components could be killer dangerous, even when done on a GFCI protected outlet.
Even an expert will troubleshoot completely as possible without powering up the system. Don't neglect to look for possible shorts on the neutral side of the element circuit. (For example, you may have a protective thermoswitch on the neutral side of that circuit that took in some water.)
Even an expert will troubleshoot completely as possible without powering up the system. Don't neglect to look for possible shorts on the neutral side of the element circuit. (For example, you may have a protective thermoswitch on the neutral side of that circuit that took in some water.)
Sometimes a short-to-ground in an element will trip a GFCI, but can't be detected with a multimeter. Electricians use a megger to test for small leaks under full voltage loads. You may be able to borrow one or have your element checked by someone who has one.perister wrote:2. I measured the Heating Element with a multimeter, it looks OK, normal continuity between the connectors, while there is no continuity to the ground.
I assume you removed the leads to the element and wired up the kettle in its place, using those same leads? And it did not trip the GFCI? If that's true, this test does lead you to suspect the element as the culprit.perister wrote:3. I tried to connect an electric kettle to the HE, and when the control unit fires the HE, the kettle works OK
Kids, don't try this at home! You would need to be sure that the element base was connected to a good ground. Otherwise this test would be unsafe, and it would not tell you whether you had a short. (Without a current path to ground the GFCI would not trip.)perister wrote:4. I took off the HE, and tried it in a bucket of water, connecting it directly to the power, it works OK.
Pat
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h
nínádiishʼnahgo gohwééh náshdlį́į́h
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- Posts: 3
- Joined: 8 years ago
Hello guys,
Many thanks for all the replies!
Indeed it was descaler that came out of the vacuum breaker.
In the meantime, I tried to 'bake' the heating element as per the suggestion of another thread, and it did work!
The machine started OK, and when the HE was switched on, no GFCI tripping !
But then, as the pressure went on, water started coming out of the HE threads.
I understand that I need more torque on getting the HE securely in place.
I ordered a 30mm socket to try as with three adjustable wrench I can not get proper access.
One thing that blows my mind though, is that it was very very easy to unscrew the HE in the first place, and it was not letting water out before. This is a mystery.
Any suggestions on the torque I have to use?
Many thanks again for all the help, really appreciated:)
Many thanks for all the replies!
Indeed it was descaler that came out of the vacuum breaker.
In the meantime, I tried to 'bake' the heating element as per the suggestion of another thread, and it did work!
The machine started OK, and when the HE was switched on, no GFCI tripping !
But then, as the pressure went on, water started coming out of the HE threads.
I understand that I need more torque on getting the HE securely in place.
I ordered a 30mm socket to try as with three adjustable wrench I can not get proper access.
One thing that blows my mind though, is that it was very very easy to unscrew the HE in the first place, and it was not letting water out before. This is a mystery.
Any suggestions on the torque I have to use?
Many thanks again for all the help, really appreciated:)
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- Posts: 68
- Joined: 11 years ago
I've had great luck taking out / re-installing the heating element in my machine. No leaks. I put the 30mm socket on my cordless impact screw driver. Hit the trigger and it's sealed on the white teflon ring. Don't need to do it a second time.
I think the trick is that you don't turn the boiler but just sudden-impact the element against the sealing ring. What that torque is I know not.
D.
I think the trick is that you don't turn the boiler but just sudden-impact the element against the sealing ring. What that torque is I know not.
D.
- BaristaBoy E61
- Posts: 3512
- Joined: 9 years ago
It makes me very nervous that you can't solve this on your own and are playing around with live circuitry.
There should be something measurable between the heating element and ground. I'm not convinced that you know how to properly use a DVM to its full potential (no pun intended).
My suggestion would be to do all your trouble-shooting and repairs with the machine unplugged!
Post detailed pics and a schematic or at least a wiring diagram if a schematic is impossible to find.
DON'T TAKE CHANCES!
IMPO
There should be something measurable between the heating element and ground. I'm not convinced that you know how to properly use a DVM to its full potential (no pun intended).
My suggestion would be to do all your trouble-shooting and repairs with the machine unplugged!
Post detailed pics and a schematic or at least a wiring diagram if a schematic is impossible to find.
DON'T TAKE CHANCES!
IMPO
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"
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- Posts: 110
- Joined: 10 years ago
This sounds unsafe.
Please be carefull when working with live circuitry.
/Uldall
Please be carefull when working with live circuitry.
/Uldall
Bassethound.
Coffee Driven.
Coffee Driven.
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- Posts: 3
- Joined: 8 years ago
Hello again
I always try to take every step carefully, but also I do not want to spend a fortune for a repair I can take out on my own.
The warnings are more than appreciated, and honestly no offence is taken, on the contrary.
Currently the machine is working ok, I tried the adjustable wrench again and I have no leaks. Anyway I do not trust it, I will have to wait till Sat to get the 30mm socket, and many thanks for the impact drill/screw driver suggestion, I do have one and will try it out!
How the 'baking' of the HE helped I do not fully understand, maybe it took care of the Desacler residue?
Really appreciate all your help:)
Nikos
I always try to take every step carefully, but also I do not want to spend a fortune for a repair I can take out on my own.
The warnings are more than appreciated, and honestly no offence is taken, on the contrary.
Currently the machine is working ok, I tried the adjustable wrench again and I have no leaks. Anyway I do not trust it, I will have to wait till Sat to get the 30mm socket, and many thanks for the impact drill/screw driver suggestion, I do have one and will try it out!
How the 'baking' of the HE helped I do not fully understand, maybe it took care of the Desacler residue?
Really appreciate all your help:)
Nikos
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- Posts: 1021
- Joined: 11 years ago
Check out orphan espresso and baking elements. It works quite often. The seals on the outside where the electric connects can get water in them sometimes. Lots of expansion and cooling here with the heat. Water overflowing on it sneaks in. I baked a Cremina and a Salvatore element which got wet during rebuild descales. It's common.
No need to do crazy stuff as putting element in water. They can be turned on in the machine with no water but not left on! Much safer. Yes, please be careful with all electrics, most of the troubleshooting of these machine can be done relatively safely with them unplugged or one keeping hands and tools away from live electrics.
No need to do crazy stuff as putting element in water. They can be turned on in the machine with no water but not left on! Much safer. Yes, please be careful with all electrics, most of the troubleshooting of these machine can be done relatively safely with them unplugged or one keeping hands and tools away from live electrics.