Java Man wrote:Thanks for all your comments, including the flights of speculation that rotary pumps leak and water runs downhill.

Actually there's no speculation at all; I've seen water run downhill many times.

Java Man wrote:
I noticed that the rotary pump in the Alex is located directly above the pump motor.

I asked the same question about the new Duetto II on the Vivaldi S1 forum:

http://www.s1cafe.com./viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1127

Have a look through the same forum on all the examples of rotary leaks. It's definitely something you need to routinely inspect for.

I personally love the vibe pumps. Simple, soft ramp-up, no leaks, no burn-out if you run it dry, and cheap to replace. Some people just love rotaries but personally I don't see the advantage except for the "wow" factor and cool noise.

Endo wrote:I personally love the vibe pumps . . . Some people just love rotaries . . .

Yes, and some people love machines with no pumps. Personally, I'd never go back to a vibe pump, have never had problems with rotary pumps -- save once when the pomace clogged the impeller, but that was in a winery not my kitchen -- and it's not that big of a deal anyhow . . . .

Double boiler machines? HX models? They all work -- I've never seen any huge advantage of one over the other. You want "easy"? Get a super auto! After all, You pays your money and you takes your choice!

One other point of note; the electronics on the Duetto are on top of the case and Chris stated "The first you will probably notice is that we are having Izzo insulate the steam boiler and add additional vents both top and bottom to promote cooling inside the machine. This will help to prolong the life of the electronic components inside the machine."

I had preordered a Duetto but after a little more dd I ordered the Mini Vivaldi II. I really liked the Duetto but it's somewhat of a new design, which most likely will experience -0- problems, however, the Vivaldi has been out in the field for a number of years now.

I don't think you would go wrong with either machine but it's my money and I took my choice.

Not that hard to relocate a rotary pump to be remote (ie outside the case). Has the benefits of also reducing rattle vibration and making pressure adjustments trivial.

If I recall correctly, the pump mounting was changed from regular Alex to Duetto. The point was to reduce vibration and noise.

i'm no machinist, but it seems like it would be a pretty straightforward task to just put a waterproof "shell" between the pump and the motor...like an inverted coffee can with a hole cut out of the bottom with a rubber seal that would be made water tight when the pump and motor sandwiched it together (of course in production the coffee can would be the highest grade stainless machined to absolute perfection, with padding to avoid adding any more vibration/noise to the machine

if it did leak, water would flow over the stainless umbrella and into the case where it would cause less damage.....

or just move it outside the case...

From the couple of machines I have looked at and rebuilt I can say that Procon pumps can and will leak. But it seems they only do it if they are left idle. If they get regular use they seem to last a long time, but if stored improperly they will die with about a year on idle. So if you are looking at a used machine the motor up pump down configuration would seem to be the least damaging to the motors bearings. But even with that you can still get 'bloom' of strange minerals into the shaft/pump interface. But that nice air gap leaves you room to clean out with out damage.

Hope that makes sense.

-Cecil

malachi wrote:or just move it outside the case...

Chris, that would not work in most houses.

Me: "Honey, could you please empty the cookware out of that cabinet so I can install my espresso machine pump."

Wife: "I'll show you where to put that espresso machine pump!"

Back to the original issue. Is that a bad design idea?