Risk of leakage for plumbed-in espresso machines? - Page 3

by **JohnB.** on Mon May 11, 2009 9:42 am

I would think that the Industrial version would be the way to go as it breaks into the main before the takeoff. The Home unit just adds more possible leaks & doesn't account for the 3/8" line takeoff from the main.

by **miKe mcKoffee** on Mon May 11, 2009 9:49 am

Arpi wrote:You guys are terrible. I keep buying all these gadgets. I am thinking on a espresso gadget-rack (like a server rack) and wires-lines ties to keep things neat.

So far I got the killlawatt, the digital timer to wake up and have the machine warm, now the leak detector (got the bigger one), the shot timer, the digital thermometer for ambient temperature, the thermocouple adapter for E61, hmm... a gauge to tell me the output pressure of the adjustable water regulator. That's it

Hmmm, I don't see a Scace Thermofilter... :wink:

by **stefano65** on Mon May 11, 2009 10:16 am

As long as you have a right amount of water pressure coming in a ( install a pressure regulator if necessary)
and you recharge your water softener
you should be fine

also to add to it
you can install a leak detector
and in addition for the peace of mind

and close water lines ( and machine) off if you are gone for more than a week or so

by **CRCasey** on Tue May 12, 2009 2:05 am

Arpi wrote:You guys are terrible. I keep buying all these gadgets. I am thinking on a espresso gadget-rack (like a server rack) and wires-lines ties to keep things neat.

So far I got the killlawatt, the digital timer to wake up and have the machine warm, now the leak detector (got the bigger one), the shot timer, the digital thermometer for ambient temperature, the thermocouple adapter for E61, hmm... a gauge to tell me the output pressure of the adjustable water regulator. That's it

For Now

by **Psyd** on Tue May 12, 2009 5:47 pm

miKe mcKoffee wrote:Hmmm, I don't see a Scace Thermofilter...

Ya, I don't either. Your post made me go out and get one. Picked it up yesterday, being shipped as we speak... er... type.

Y'all cut it out, now, y'hear!?!

by **smillions** on Thu May 14, 2009 4:20 pm

After reading this thread and the other two that Dan referenced, I would be curious to know; what sorts of plumbing failures have people experienced? Based on the plumbing disasters that I have lived through, none of these precautions would have helped, so I'm having a hard time seeing the value.

by **sweaner** on Thu May 14, 2009 8:45 pm

Never underestimate the power of paranoia. Of all the plumbed-in appliances we own, only the lowly toilet has ever caused a flood. Water flowing out of a chandelier is quite a sight.

by **Ken Fox** on Thu May 14, 2009 9:53 pm

smillions wrote:After reading this thread and the other two that Dan referenced, I would be curious to know; what sorts of plumbing failures have people experienced? Based on the plumbing disasters that I have lived through, none of these precautions would have helped, so I'm having a hard time seeing the value.

People here obsess about this, in part, because their plumbed-in espresso machine is the one thing in their house that they personally plumbed in. All the rest of their stuff was connected by a plumber, and the assumption, right or wrong, is that the plumber knew what he was doing :mrgreen:

.

I've lived in my present house for 12 years, and the house was originally constructed for me, so it has relatively new plumbing. There have been two plumbing failures in my house during this time, both of which were the "fault" of a plumber. The first was when the original dishwasher was installed, before I moved in; the installation leaked overnight afterwards and the kitchen floor needed to be refinished as a result.

The second leaking episode occurred in some pipes down in the basement that were revised when a different plumber installed a whole-house water softener several years ago; that leak, which occurred when I was out of town, was caught by someone watching over the house in my absence. There was drywall damage but given that this leak was in the basement I elected not to repair it and it isn't anything anyone visiting my house would ever see.

I've had a few "drip drip drip" minor leaks in my equipment, most notably in my old vibe machine after I replaced all the moving parts a few years ago and reattached the old copper pipes back together; with some further effort, those minor drips were resolved.

From a practical standpoint I'd say that you should not plumb in your espresso machine yourself if you feel uncomfortable working with plumbing fixtures. It would be a very good idea to have a real shut off valve upstream of your machine, and probably that should be installed by a plumber. Don't leave your house or go on vacation right after you hook up a machine, unless you can use a shut off valve to stop the flow to the machine. It is probably a good idea to turn off the water to the espresso machine whenever you are away from your house for an extended period, say a weekend or longer. You could say the same thing about shutting off the water to your washing machine.

If you use good quality materials and exercise care, it is very unlikely that you will ever have a significant flooding incident caused by a plumbed in espresso machine.

ken

by **Theodore** on Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:38 pm

BillK wrote:There is an attendant consideration with plumbed-in machines compared to pourover, and I think it is worth mentioning as part of any decision process. I have a concern with plumbed-in, rotary machines, which is the potential leakage of the typically used John Guest type plumbing we use. I use this type of plumbing, and I have it in two installations. And, rightly or wrongly, it makes me a little nervous.

After a plumbing mishap this winter with a plastic refrigerator line (no John Guest involvement) that cost me a lot of time and money, I had a talk with my plumber (as he was in my house to work on the mess). He looked at my espresso hookup and told me that he will no longer install anything like this, nor will he do the under-sink RO systems that are popular. He says that this type of plumbing does not conform to building codes. Hence, when there are failures and people put in big water damage claims with insurance companies, the insurance companies come back on the installer if the installer was a licensed plumber. (He also told me that the braided, flexible riser tubes we all have that connect the water supplies to our sinks are not in conformance with national codes, as well as a couple of other moderately unsettling things).

I think that any cautious espresso enthusiast who is making a decision on rotary versus pourover should understand what my plumber expressed to me. Is the plastic plumbing for an espresso machine any worse that the garden hose connection to one's dishwasher, or the flexible riser tubes, or the plastic infested under-counter RO system, or the dreaded plastic ice-cube maker line on the frig? Definitely not. But it is yet another source of possible leakage, an N+1 situation, and if you have an expensive hardwood floor, as I do, it can be ruined before you know it by a dripping leak.

I have not had a problem with my John Guest installations, and I trust Chris Coffee to sell only materials that he knows from experience will work well for his customers. So I will continue to have my rotary machines. But I want to mitigate the risk wherever I can. Hence, I plan to check into upgrading my installation this summer. A fellow enthusiast told me that the plastic line that Chris carries is good for 230 p.s.i. This is much higher than my line pressure, and I won't make any changes here. I have also been told that Culligan carries fittings that are double O-ringed. I have not had a chance to look into this, but if I can get these fittings I will definitely replace what I have with them, as it seems like an easy and sensible upgrade. The other thing I have already done is to get some of the water alarms that have a mat-type water sensing element. I will put one of these in proximity to the plumbing and machine where I have a hardwood floor. These are the only simple and prudent things I know to do at this time, other than shut the water off when we leave the house overnight.

For what it is worth...

BillK

I have just seen the thread and so I respond now.
I have a Reneka Techno machine and it is a plumbed one.The plumber,who fixed it, was a espresso machine specialist,so he had,and used a special hose,that it is up to the high temperatures of the water,which goes out,and it is one piece of course,up to the sink.
I have it for 8 years now,and I have not any problems.
Regards,
Theodore.

by **duke-one** on Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:11 pm

I know this is an older thread but I thought of this: for technically competent HB'ers, machines not on all day this would be simpler: just get a tap on the load side of the main switch and neutral (or what ever the power situation is) have that open a normally closed solenoid at the water supply point. This way it is just one component, machine off water off, machine on water on.
KDM


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